A: Thomas Guthrie & Mary Cason
Guthrie Family Group 8A – Branch A
THOMAS GUTHRIE 1711-1786VA and MARY CASON
of Halifax County, Virginia, USA
CONTENTS:
Origin Theories
The Family of Thomas Guthrie & Mary Cason
Historical Highlights
The Guthrie DNA Project
Like many of the colonial Virginia families, this line of Guthries tends to get erroneously attached to other Virginia groups because they are either living in the same region or have some given names in common. Y-DNA testing has revealed that Guthrie Family Group 8 does not genetically match either GFG1A (Middlesex, VA) or GFG4 (Cumberland, VA).
There is currently no obvious originating Guthrie lineage with matching Y-DNA in an earlier generation to point the way to Thomas Guthrie’s family line. Descendant, and one of our Guthrie DNA Project Admins, James O. Guthrie, has posted his thoughts on the subject on the Ancestry Message Boards. He speculates that since Halifax County, Virginia was formed from Lunenburg County, Virginia, the answer might be there. A John Guthrie is listed as a head of household along with a tithable (+16 years of age) named Robert Guthrie. Halifax was formed in 1752, and there are records for a John Guthrie in the 1750s entries of the Halifax County court records. He believes the records refer to the same John Guthrie, and that potentially either John or Robert could have a role in the heritage of Thomas Guthrie of Halifax County, Virginia.
High Quality Y-DNA testing has also revealed matches for GFG8 members to men of the Vaughan surname from County Cork, Ireland. This brings up the possibility that this Guthrie line could potentially genetically descend from a Vaughan father at some generation pre-immigration to America, either by adoption or non-paternal event. This should be considered a clue to search for Guthrie families living in the County Cork area and for Irish immigrants of the Guthrie surname living in Virginia. Note there are Vaughan families in Halifax County, Virginia at the time Thomas Guthrie was living there in the 1780s. So, it is possible that Vaughan YDNA was introduced to the Guthrie lineage while in Halifax County, but it would have to be in an early generation that would encompass all GFG8 American branches.
THOMAS GUTHRIE
Born: Unknown, rough est. 1720-1740, Trees list 1711
Location: Unknown, possibly in the Colony of Virginia
Married: Mary Cason, presumably in Virginia about late 1750s
Occupation: Unknown
Died: 1786
Location: Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Buried: Unknown, presumably in Halifax County, Virginia, USA
MARY CASON
Born: Unknown, rough est. 1720-1740, Trees list 1730
Location: Unknown, probably Spotsylvania County, Virginia
Sons: Cason Guthrie (1760)
Daughters: Mary (17??), Elizabeth ‘Betsy’ (17??), Frances (17??)
Died: After 1787
Location: Unknown, presumably Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Buried: Unknown, presumably Halifax County, Virginia, USA
CHILDREN:
CASON GUTHRIE
1750VA-p1850KY
Based on his age in the 1850 Census of Kentucky, Cason Guthrie was born about 1750 in Virginia. He was twice married and produced children with each of his wives. He married Dorthy Reaves on 7 Jun 1786 by whom he had Lavenia (1785), Thomas (1790), Ephraim (1794), and Letitia (1800). Dorthy died about 1790. He married again on 21 March 1802 to Elizabeth Lee. They had three children: Harrison (1803), Jane (1804), and Elizabeth (1805). The children from his first family and their descendants remained in Halifax County. Cason, along with his second family and their extended relations, moved in a mass migration of Guthries, Tories, Taxtons, Gees and others from Halifax, Virginia to Christian County, Kentucky. (Source: JOG49) Cason died sometime between 1850-1860. He would have been in his 90s.
Children: 7
Sons: Thomas Guthrie (1790), Ephraim Guthrie (1794), Harrison Guthrie (1803)
Daughters: Lavenia Guthrie (1785), Letitia Guthrie (1800), Jane Guthrie (1804), Elizabeth Guthrie (1805)
Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Participants: No
ELIZABETH ‘BETSY’ GUTHRIE
17??VA-17??UNK
We really don’t have a precise estimate of the DOB for the children of Thomas and Mary (Cason) Guthrie. 10 years plus/minus son Cason’s approximate DOB in 1760 gives us a range of 1750-1770. Elizabeth was already married and widowed by 1786, so her DOB is more likely to be 1750-1760 than at the latter end of the scale.
The 1782 Virginia Substitute Census lists 2 men of the Peterson surname living in Halifax County, Virginia: James Peterson and George Peterson. Possible that one of these men was Betsy’s husband, who died prior to her father’s will in 1786, which tied her bequest to her widowed marital status. When Betsy remarried to Samuel Morris on 19 Aug 1797, her brother Cason, one of the probate securitors of the will, retracted her inheritance. She sued for a portion of the estate, but the case was dismissed. No further details collected.
Children: Unknown
FRANCES GUTHRIE
17??VA-17??UNK
Again, a rough estimate of Frances Guthrie’s DOB would be 1750-1770. According to her father’s will, she was married prior to 1786 to a man by the Day surname. There is only 1 Day household in Halifax, Virginia in 1785 headed by Thomas Day, presumably Frances’ husband. No further details collected.
Children: Unknow
MARY GUTHRIE
17??VA-17??UNK
Mary Guthrie was apparently still single at the time of her father’s 1786 will. She is listed in the records by her maiden name. No further details collected.
Children: Unknown
About 1711: BIRTH of THOMAS GUTHRIE
Unknown, possibly in Virginia Colony
According to online trees, Thomas Guthrie was born about 1711, however I have found no documents identifying his DOB other than Head of Family listings for Halifax County, Virginia in the 1780s indicating he is a taxable adult.
His son Cason was born about 1760 according to the 1850 census, so assuming that Thomas was at least 20 and no older than 40 at the time of his son’s birth, a rough estimate for his own birth would be between 1720-1740. A DOB in 1711 puts him at 49 years old at the birth of his son, which is certainly not improbable, but there is no evidence of which I am aware of an unaccounted for adult man of his name and proposed age living in Virginia.
Determining his actual age would help in identifying his parents.
About 1730: BIRTH of MARY CASON
Virginia Colony, possibly in Spotsylvania County
Mary Cason’s parents have been identified as Robert Cason and Elizabeth Larkin. Their children are identified with DOB in the 1730s-1740s, so this estimated year seems appropriate as a start. The Cason family moved to Halifax County, Virginia in the 1750s from Spotsylvania County, Virginia, so it may be there that Mary was born.
1746: FORMATION of LUNENBURG COUNTY, VIRGINIA
Brunswick County, Virginia Colony
Lunenburg County was formed on 1 May 1746 from Brunswick County, Virginia. The county is named for the former Duchy of Brunswick-Lünenburg in Germany, because one of the titles also carried by Britain’s Hanoverian kings was Duke of Brunswick-Lünenburg.
1750-1770: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – ELIZABETH GUTHRIE
Virginia Colony, presumably Halifax County
Since her brother Cason’s estimated DOB is in 1760, Elizabeth and her sisters are being estimated at plus/minus 10 years. Elizabeth had already been married and widowed at the time of her father’s death in 1786, and soon remarried. If she was no younger than 16 at that date, her birth date would have been no later than 1770.
1750-1770: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – FRANCES GUTHRIE
Virginia Colony, presumably Halifax County
Since her brother Cason’s estimated DOB is in 1760, Frances and her sisters are being estimated at plus/minus 10 years. Frances was already married at the time of her father’s death in 1786 to a man of the Day surname. If she was no younger than 16 at that date, her birth date would have been no later than 1770.
1750-1770: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – MARY GUTHRIE
Virginia Colony, presumably Halifax County
Since her brother Cason’s estimated DOB is in 1760, Mary and her sisters are being estimated at plus/minus 10 years. It is unknown if Mary reached adulthood by the time of her father’s death in 1786. She was still unmarried.
1752: FORMATION of HALIFAX COUNTY, VIRGINIA
Lunenburg County, Virginia Colony
Halifax County was established by English colonists in 1752 from Lunenburg County, Virginia. It is located on the VA-NC border.
1760: BIRTH of SON – CASON GUTHRIE
Halifax County, Virginia Colony
Cason’s DOB is an estimate based on the age listed during the 1850 census, when he is listed as 90 years of age.
1768: COURT ORDER
Halifax County, Virginia Colony
Thomas Guthrie was beckoned by the court to work on the roads with Jacob Miller as the surveyor.
1777: PROPERTY PURCHASE
Halifax County, Virginia, USA on 16 Oct 1777
In the deeds of Halifax County, Thomas Guthrey bought 1/4 section (160 acres) on the Dan River from John Rowe on 16 OCT 1777. This land was described as adjoining lands of Thomas Caison (sp), who would have been Thomas’s brother-in-law.
1782: HEADS of FAMILIES
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Household of Thomas Guthrey: 7 white, 0 black.
1785: HEADS of FAMILIES
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Household of Thomas Guthrey: 7 whites, 3 other buildings
1786: PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX LIST
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Thomas Guthrey is listed as a HOH with Caison (sp) Guthrey as a member and of a tithable age.
1786: DEATH of THOMAS GUTHRIE
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
1786: MARRIAGE of SON – CASON GUTHRIE
Halifax County, Virginia, USA on 7 Jun 1786
Since the original record is nearly illegible, the consensus is that the name of Cason Guthrie’s first wife was Dorthy Reaves / Reeves. Family Search transcribes the give name as Martha. They married in Halifax County on 7 Jun 1786, the same year as Thomas’ death. I’m not sure if it was before or afterward. They were parents to 4 children: Lavenia (1785), Thomas (1790), Ephraim (1794), and Letitia (1800).
1790: US RECONSTRUCTED CENSUS of VIRGINIA (TAX RECORDS)
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Cason Gutry – 1 white tithe, 2 horses
1800: US RECONSTRUCTED CENSUS of VIRGINIA (TAX RECORDS)
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Cason Guthrie – 1 white tithe, 1 horse
1800-1802: DEATH of DAUGHTER-IN-LAW DORTHY (REEVES) GUTHRIE
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Cason’s wife Dorothy died sometime after 1800 when their last child was born and 1802 when he remarried.
1802: MARRIAGE of SON – CASON GUTHRIE
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Cason Guthrie married for a second time on 21 March 1802 to Elizabeth Lee. They became parents to 3 children: Harrison Guthrie (1803), Jane Guthrie (1804), and Elizabeth Guthrie (1805).
1830: US CENSUS of VIRGINIA
Halifax County, Virginia, USA
Males – 20 thru 29 1 Males – 30 thru 39 1 Males – 60 thru 69 1 Females – 20 thru 29 3 Females – 30 thru 39 1 Females – 50 thru 59 1
1830: US CENSUS OF KENTUCKY
Christian County, Kentucky, USA
Heads up, folks. The 1830 census of Christian County includes 2 men of the Guthrie surname who are sons of GFG1A’s Charles Guthrie & Mariah (MNU): Patrick and Vincent Guthrie. These men are not genetically related to GFG8. However, Charles Guthrie did own land in Halifax County, Virginia. Charles was born about 1760 in Virginia, so is about the same age as Thomas’s son Cason.
About 1831: REMOVED to CHRISTIAN COUNTY, KENTUCKY, USA
Cason Guthrie’s second family and their extended relations moved in a mass migration of Guthries, Torians, Thaxtons, Gees, and others from Halifax County, Virginia to Christian County, Kentucky. (Source: JOG49)
1831-1850: DEATH of DAUGHTER-IN-LAW – ELIZABETH (LEE) GUTHRIE
1840: US CENSUS of KENTUCKY
Not found
1850: US Census of KENTUCKY
District 1, Christian County, Kentucky, USA
Anderson Gee 56 Martha Gee 45 Elizabeth A Gee 23 Harrison Gee 21 Sarah Gee 17 Charles Gee 15 William Gee 13 Eddy Gee 10 Martha Gee 5 Harriett Gee 2 Harrison Guthrie 18 Cayson Guthrie 90
Martha (Torian) Guthrie, widow of Cason’s son Harrison Guthrie, remarried to Anderson Gee in 1842. The Harrison Guthrie listed here is the son of Harrison Guthrie and Martha Torian.
1850-1860: DEATH of SON – CASON GUTHRIE
Christian County, Kentucky, USA
Guthrie Family Group: GFG8A
Group Designation: Branch A – (The Guthries of Halifax County, Virginia)
Haplogroup: R-M269
Confirmed Haplogroup: R-M269
YDNA Matches: 3
Kit 33800:
Thomas Guthrie/Mary Cason > Cason Guthrie/Dorthy Reaves > Ephraim Guthrie/Nancy Blackwell > William Henry Guthrie/Susan Ann Thaxton > James Anderson Guthrie/Fannie A Snead (GGP) +more
Kit 62514:
Thomas Guthrie/Mary Cason > Cason Guthrie/Dorthy Reaves > Ephraim Guthrie/Nancy Blackwell > William Henry Guthrie/Susan Ann Thaxton > James Anderson Guthrie/Fannie A Snead (GGP) +more
Kit 156204:
Thomas Guthrie/Mary Cason > Cason Guthrie/Dorthy Reaves > Ephraim Guthrie/Nancy Blackwell > James W Guthrie/Martha Lawson > Alexander Guthrie/Martha L Brandon > James David Guthrie/Fannie Burton Pruett (GGP) +more
Other Surname Members Matching GFG8A’s Genetic Profile:
644644: (Vaughan Surname) – Ireland to USA
742404: (Vaughan Surname) – Ireland to Australia
857048: (Vaughan Surname) – Ireland to USA
926648: (Carter Surname)
940110: (Carter Surname)
B227026: (McCarter Surname) – KY/TN – USA
765346: (Kelly Surname)
Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Kits:
AncestryDNA:
Thomas Guthrie/Mary Cason > Cason Guthrie/Dorothy Reaves > Thomas Guthrie/Frances Ann Gravitt > Jackson Guthrie/Mary Frances Shelton > Martha ‘Pattie’ Guthrie/Irvin T Crumpler (2xGGP)
Findings:
Thus far, the line of Thomas Guthrie & Mary Cason is the earliest Guthrie branch within GFG8. Other Guthrie lineages for the group match its genetic profile, and may be descendant branches. They do not match any of the other Virginia Guthrie groups, nor any other currently-identified Guthrie Family Group’s YDNA profile.
There are 2 major Surname matches for Guthrie Family Group 8: Carter and Vaughan. This definitely makes it likely that this Guthrie family is a sub-branch of a biological Carter or Vaughan line. Members of this Family Group are working together to sort out the most likely generation/location.
Big-Y testing may be the way to go for this group in order to show more distant branching. The Carter links appear to be Colonial Era in America, but the Vaughan connection may be more distant.
So Jay/James Guthrie wrote on October 28, 2010 in reply to Carter Guthrie, North Carolina to Arkansas, that there were two Carter Guthries in Lincoln County, North Carolina. One seems to have been a son of Francis Guthrie who was in Lincoln County, NC, at the time in the 1790 Census was taken. This Francis was likely a native of this region. About 1796, Thomas Guthrie moved to Lincoln Co., NC from Rockingham Co., NC ( a Virginia/NC border county) and seemed to be a contemporary of Francis Guthrie (who was already there in Lincoln County, NC. So with my current DNA results, how does my GFG8 get me back from Carter and Barbara A. Beall to Thomas Guthrie b1711 and Mary Cason. I thought Thomas Guthrie (1745-1810) and wife Amy Carter (1750-1813) were the parents of my Carter Guthrey Sr. (b. 1770 Tryon, NC near New Bern d 10 Oct1850 in Madison, AR). I found 12 Sep 1827 Tryon and Lincoln, North Carolina marriage date to Amey Beal or marriage in Lincoln NC in 1800 or 1810 or 1814, but a son named Wilson was shown to be born around 1813 and then a son also born named John in 1813. Looks like 2 Carters may be accurate. Help!
Yes, there are indeed two Carter Guthrie households in Lincoln, NC at the same time during the 1800 census. One is a male of 26-44 with a female of 16-25. They are the only members of their household. Next door is the household of Thomas Vaughan, which may or may not be significant considering the YDNA matches that include men of the Vaughn/ Vaughan surname. The second household is that of a slightly younger couple, Carter Gutherie and his inferred spouse, both 16-25 years of age. This is an alphabetical ordered page / district whereas the first was not. He is listed on the same page as the James Gutherie, Thomas Gutherie households. James is also 16-25, married, with 1 daughter. Thomas is over 45, with a spouse in the same age category, 1F 16-25, 2M10-15, and 2 slaves. The 1790 census actually lists a “Frank Guttery” with 1M over 16, 0M under 16, 1F, and no slaves, which would seem to show that Carter Guthrie was not a son since there was no younger male in the household. Frank is listed as Frances Gutherie during the 1800 census and has a wife also 45 and over, a daughter 16-25, 1 son 10-15, and 1 son under 10. Francis ‘Frank’ Guthrie and his wife Frances (MNU) had been living in Tryon County, NC during the 1760s. They sold land there in 1769 and 1770. Francis Guttery appeared on a Lincoln, NC deed in 1783 when he purchased 200 acres of land. Check my tree and search for “Lincoln NC Connections” where I have most of these Lincoln County Guthries grouped under the same heading for research. As to the identity of your Carter Guthrie’s parents and filling in the generational gap between Carter and his presumed direct line back to Thomas Guthrie and Mary Cason. There may be some records in Halifax VA, Tryon NC or Lincoln NC to provide some answers.