Guthrie of Kincaldrum
Meet the Guthries of Kincaldrum
Kincaldrum was an Angus estate with a history of its own. Its association with the Guthrie family began in the fifteenth century, before the same family became established as proprietors of the lands of Guthrie. For several generations the histories of the two estates overlapped. They were nevertheless separate properties, capable of passing through different lines of succession.
That distinction is central to understanding this branch. The early Guthries of Kincaldrum included men who also became associated with Guthrie, but Kincaldrum did not merely function as an alternative title for an heir or younger son. Surviving charters, sasines, court records, royal accounts and family papers document an identifiable landed succession extending from the fifteenth century into the seventeenth.
The Kincaldrum story later circles back toward Guthrie. In the early seventeenth century David Guthrie of Kincaldrum acquired interests in the barony of Guthrie, while his own son Alexander continued as the Kincaldrum heir. The principal Guthrie succession at Kincaldrum ended with Alexander’s conveyance of the estate to Sir John Blair of Balgillo in 1633, although the transaction reserved a liferent in half of Carret to his father David, and Alexander himself remained active in surviving records afterward.
The Lands of Kincaldrum
Kincaldrum in Angus
Kincaldrum lies in the parish of Inverarity, south of Forfar in historic Forfarshire, now Angus.
Medieval and early-modern records place the estate within the territorial complex associated with Lour or Lour-Leslie and record not only Kincaldrum itself but connected lands including Little Lour, Muirton, Carret, Methie and Kincreich.
Before the Guthries: Kincaldrum already had a documented history before the family’s arrival. A royal confirmation of 1392–93 included the lands of Kyncaldrum among the hereditary possessions of John de Wemyss, deriving through Alexander de Abernethy. The surviving Guthrie evidence begins in the following century.
Succession of Kincaldrum
| Name | Landed Designation | Key Point | |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Master Alexander Guthrie | 1st of Kincaldrum | Securely documented as of Kincaldrum by 1450; an earlier 1446 grant is reported but not yet independently verified. |
| 2 | Master / Sir David Guthrie |
2nd of Kincaldrum 1st of Guthrie |
Received Guthrie in 1465/66, bringing Kincaldrum and Guthrie into the hands of the same family line. |
| 3 | Sir Alexander Guthrie |
3rd of Kincaldrum 2nd of Guthrie |
Separated the two landed successions in 1508; died at Flodden in 1513. |
| 4 | Alexander Guthrie | 4th of Kincaldrum | Held Kincaldrum after Flodden; last securely documented living on 29 January 1539. |
| 5 | David Guthrie | 5th of Kincaldrum | In possession of Kincaldrum lands by 1557; his death is documented in 1593. |
| 6 | Alexander Guthrie | 6th of Kincaldrum | Settled Kincaldrum upon son David in 1594; the Alise / Helene Douglas evidence remains partly unresolved. |
| 7 | David Guthrie |
7th of Kincaldrum 8th of Guthrie |
Purchased the principal estate of Guthrie in 1629–30, briefly reconnecting the two landed lines. |
| 8 | Alexander Guthrie | 8th of Kincaldrum | Sold Kincaldrum to Sir John Blair of Balgillo in 1633; still documented in December 1635. |
How Kincaldrum and Guthrie Intersect
Kincaldrum and Guthrie were separate landed estates whose histories crossed more than once. The numbered succession above follows Kincaldrum; the sequence below shows when the two estates came together and separated again.
The Kincaldrum Line
The surviving evidence becomes clearer as the fifteenth century progresses. Rather than treating every statement in the traditional pedigree as equally certain, the profiles below distinguish contemporary documentation from later reconstruction and family tradition.
Master Alexander Guthrie
Master Alexander Guthrie is the earliest member of this Kincaldrum family whose territorial association can presently be demonstrated directly from contemporary evidence. On 21 July 1450, an inquest held at Brechin included Master Alexander de Guthre, also identified in the record as de Kyncaldrum, among the local men serving on the assize. His appearance places him securely within the landed and administrative community of mid-fifteenth-century Angus.
The family may have been at Kincaldrum several years earlier. Nineteenth-century antiquarian histories report a charter dated 20 April 1446 by which Sir Thomas Wemyss granted Kincaldrum to Alexander Guthrie and his wife Marjory. The original charter has not yet been located in the present National Records of Scotland indexing, so the 1446 transaction is best described as a reported early charter rather than surviving primary evidence presently examined .
A second reported charter, dated 10 April 1457, records George, Earl of Rothes, granting the lands of Kincaldrum in the barony of Lour to Alexander Guthrie and Marjory his spouse. This later reported transaction would show the continuing association of the couple with the property, although the precise legal relationship between the reported 1446 and 1457 grants remains to be reconstructed from the underlying records.
Alexander & Marjory — The Reconstructed Family
Succeeded in the Kincaldrum story and is securely documented as Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum by the later 1450s. He became the prominent royal administrator later known as Sir David Guthrie.
A 1457 Arbroath Abbey record expressly identifies James as the brother of David Guthrie. His placement as another son of Alexander and Marjory is therefore highly plausible, although the record does not itself state the names of their parents.
Later pedigrees include William among the sons of Alexander and Marjory. Contemporary evidence directly establishing that parent-child relationship has not yet been identified.
Earlier Clues & the 1446 Question
Records from the 1420s and 1430s contain a Master Alexander de Guthry engaged in royal and local administrative work connected with Forfar and Montrose. A man of the same name and title also appears as a witness in an Arbroath Abbey transaction in 1434.
The chronology, title and Angus setting make it quite possible that these references belong to the later Alexander of Kincaldrum. They do not, however, call him “of Kincaldrum,” so the identification remains probable rather than certain.
The reported 1446 Wemyss charter is consequently an important research target. Finding the original, an enrolled copy, or a fuller contemporary abstract could establish exactly when and under what terms Alexander and Marjory first obtained Kincaldrum.
Source Trail for this Generation
Contemporary evidence:
Register of the Bishopric of Brechin
— 21 July 1450 inquest naming Master Alexander de Guthre /
de Kyncaldrum.
Earlier Alexander evidence:
Arbroath Abbey Registers
— 1434 Master Alexander Guthrie and the cross-source
comparison with the Exchequer Rolls.
Reported land grants:
Alexander Warden, Angus or Forfarshire, and later
published Leslie-family material preserve accounts of the
1446 and 1457 Kincaldrum charters. These should remain
secondary evidence until the underlying instruments are
located or examined.
Master / Sir David Guthrie
David Guthrie did not enter the records as Guthrie of Guthrie. His established territorial identity was Kincaldrum. By 1457, Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum was serving as Sheriff of Forfar. That same year an Arbroath Abbey instrument identifies James Guthrie as his brother, helping to anchor David within the family reconstructed in the preceding generation.
His administrative career was already expanding before Guthrie came into his possession. In 1459/60 David acted as one of the specially appointed chamberlains of the Bishop of Brechin. During the following decade he entered the highest levels of royal government under James III, serving as Treasurer and later in a succession of important financial, judicial and administrative offices.
Kincaldrum and Guthrie Come Together
On 25 March 1465/66, James III granted Master David de Guthre of Kincaldrum the lands of Guthrie in Forfarshire. The charter is especially revealing because it still identifies David by his earlier estate of Kincaldrum at the very moment that Guthrie came into his possession.
From this point forward, the two landed histories were held together in the same family. David increasingly appears in subsequent records as of Guthrie or of that Ilk, but Kincaldrum remained part of the family’s landed identity.
Master David of Kincaldrum
Documented as Sheriff of Forfar. An Arbroath Abbey instrument also expressly identifies James Guthrie as his brother.
Administration of the Bishopric of Brechin
David serves as one of the specially appointed chamberlains commissioned to hold the bishop’s court at Brechin.
Royal government
David’s career expands through service as Treasurer of Scotland and other senior offices under James III.
The lands of Guthrie
James III grants Master David de Guthre of Kincaldrum the lands of Guthrie in Forfarshire, bringing the two estate histories together.
Title to Guthrie renewed
David resigns the lands and barony of Guthrie to the Crown and receives a new royal confirmation to himself and his heirs.
The family comes into sharper focus
A Great Seal charter identifies Alexander as David’s son and apparent heir, Malcolm as his natural son, and James Guthrie as David’s brother.
The succession opens
Sir David was still alive on 20 May. By 23 August, Alexander was receiving sasine as son and heir of the deceased Sir David Guthrie.
Sir David’s Family — What the Evidence Supports
Early Panmure family material reports that David married a sister of Sir Thomas Maule of Panmure and that the marriage was later dissolved because the couple were related within prohibited degrees. That account says several children had already been born. No contemporary marriage or annulment record has yet been identified, and the children cannot presently be assigned securely to this reported marriage.
Contemporary evidence directly identifies Jonete as David’s wife, and Sir Alexander later identified David as his father and Jonete as his mother. Her surname is not supplied in the contemporary records presently identified. Later family evidence strongly supports the traditional identification with the Dundas family, but that surname remains unproven by a contemporary record.
Directly identified as David’s son and apparent heir and, in later charter evidence, as the son of David and Jonete. He succeeded to both the Guthrie and Kincaldrum story.
Explicitly described in contemporary evidence as David’s natural son and provided with the lands of Balnabreich. Questions concerning Malcolm’s maternity and the origins of his line are reserved for the separate Guthrie of Balnabreich profile.
A 1468 charter directly documents Elizabeth as the wife of Alexander Maule. Early Panmure family material identifies her as Sir David’s daughter and places her mother in the Dundas family. Her marriage therefore provides an important contemporary Maule connection even though the evidence for her precise maternity remains partly dependent on family tradition.
The Maule Marriage & the Dundas Tradition
Sir David’s marriage history is one of the places where later pedigrees appear much tidier than the surviving evidence.
An early Panmure family narrative reports a marriage to an unnamed sister of Sir Thomas Maule of Panmure, followed by dissolution of that marriage on the ground of prohibited kinship. According to this version, several children had already been born.
George Crawfurd, writing later in 1736, gave a different account. He said that the Maule marriage produced no issue and that David subsequently married a daughter of the house of Dundas.
Contemporary evidence resolves only part of the problem. It securely names Jonete as David’s wife and as the mother of Sir Alexander Guthrie. It does not supply her surname.
Early Panmure family material identifies the mother of Elizabeth Guthrie as a daughter of the laird of Dundas and also treats Elizabeth and Alexander as siblings. This gives substantial support to the traditional identification of Jonete with the Dundas family, but it should not be converted into documentary certainty until a contemporary record naming her surname is found.
Sir David’s Royal Career — In Brief
The Kincaldrum landholder became one of the most prominent royal administrators of James III’s reign. Surviving records associate David with service as Sheriff of Forfar, Treasurer, Comptroller, Clerk of the Register, justiciar and royal diplomat .
Those offices are important here chiefly because they show that David’s rise in national government began while he was still territorially identified with Kincaldrum. His acquisition of Guthrie accompanied an already established royal career rather than creating it.
Source Trail for this Generation
Grant of Guthrie:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 2
— Charter 868, Image 197, p. 183.
The printed volume places the entry under
1466 and dates it at Stirling on
25 March. The editor’s footnote states that the underlying
register is dated 1465 and notes that
either that date or the stated sixth regnal year of
James III must be wrong. For that reason this profile
renders the date as 25 March 1465/66.
The same charter is particularly important to the Kincaldrum story because it styles the grantee Magistro David de Guthre de Kincaldrum — Master David de Guthre of Kincaldrum — at the moment the Crown granted him the lands of Guthrie.
Royal financial and administrative career:
Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland
— evidence tracing David’s service as Treasurer,
Comptroller and in other royal offices.
David and his brother James:
Arbroath Abbey Registers, Part 2
— 1457 instrument directly identifying James Guthrie as
David’s brother.
Full biographical treatment:
BIO: Sir David Guthrie
Sir Alexander Guthrie
Battle of Flodden
Sir Alexander Guthrie, 3rd of Kincaldrum and 2nd of Guthrie, inherited the combined landed interests created by his father. During his lifetime, however, the successions to Guthrie and Kincaldrum began to separate again. He succeeded Sir David in 1474 and appears during the following decades in records connected with both estates, as well as in royal, parliamentary and local administration.
In 1478 Sir Alexander was involved in a dispute with the Abbot and Convent of Coupar Angus concerning the mill at Kincaldrum. The monks maintained that the barony was thirled to their mill of Kincreich and challenged the milling arrangements Alexander had established at Kincaldrum. The case provides an unusually practical glimpse of the estate as a working agricultural property rather than simply a territorial designation.
His standing continued to rise. Alexander appears among the parliamentary barons in the early 1480s, served as Sheriff of Forfar, and was a knight by 1495. For the Kincaldrum succession, however, the most important part of his story is the way he arranged the estates among his sons.
Alexander succeeds Sir David
A sasine identifies Alexander as son and heir of the deceased Sir David Guthrie.
The Kincaldrum mill dispute
Alexander appears in litigation with the Abbot and Convent of Coupar Angus over milling rights associated with Kincaldrum and Kincreich.
Sheriff of Forfar
Parliamentary records identify Alexander in the sheriffdom formerly held by his father.
Sir Alexander
Arbroath Abbey records establish that Alexander had received knighthood by this date.
David is already the apparent heir
David Guthrie is documented as Sir Alexander’s son and apparent heir. Because Margaret Lyon was not yet free to marry Sir Alexander, David must belong to an earlier marriage.
Margaret Lyon’s earlier marriage
Margaret Lyon was contracted to James Rynd in 1495 and is subsequently documented as his widow in 1500/01.
Alexander and Margaret appear together
Sir Alexander acted as procurator for Margaret Lyon. This is the earliest direct association presently identified between them, although that particular record does not itself call them husband and wife.
Kincaldrum is settled on Alexander 4th
A Great Seal confirmation explicitly identifies Margaret Lyon as Sir Alexander’s spouse and confirms his grant of the lands and barony of Kincaldrum to his son Alexander, later 4th of Kincaldrum. George Guthrie is expressly named as another of Sir Alexander’s sons.
Flodden interrupts the Guthrie succession
Sir Alexander and his eldest son and apparent heir David Guthrie were both killed at the Battle of Flodden. David therefore never succeeded his father as proprietor of Guthrie.
Later evidence identifies another son
A charter executed by Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum, identifies Thomas Guthrie as his brother-german. Because the two men were full brothers and Alexander 4th was a documented son of Sir Alexander 3rd, Thomas likewise belongs among the sons of Sir Alexander 3rd.
1508 — The Kincaldrum Succession Separates
The Great Seal charter of 1508 is the defining document for this branch. Sir Alexander, 3rd of Kincaldrum and 2nd of Guthrie, granted his son Alexander, later 4th of Kincaldrum, the lands and barony of Kincaldrum, including associated lands and rights in Lour, Muirton, Carret, Wester Methie, Nevay, Easter Methie and Kincreich.
Sir Alexander and his wife Margaret Lyon retained reserved interests under the settlement. The same charter also names George Guthrie expressly as another son of Sir Alexander.
Sir Alexander’s Family — Reconstructed from the Records
Her name has not yet been identified in contemporary evidence. Her existence is required by the chronology because Sir Alexander’s son David was already his apparent heir by February 1495/96, while Margaret Lyon was still married to James Rynd.
Margaret was previously married to James Rynd and is documented as his widow by 1500/01. The Great Seal charter of 1508 explicitly identifies her as the spouse of Sir Alexander Guthrie.
David was already identified as Sir Alexander’s son and apparent heir by 7 February 1495/96. The chronology therefore places him securely with Sir Alexander’s unidentified earlier wife. David died with his father at Flodden in 1513.
Explicitly identified as Sir Alexander’s son in the 1508 Great Seal charter and granted the lands and barony of Kincaldrum. The present reconstruction places him with Sir Alexander’s unidentified earlier wife, rather than Margaret Lyon. No surviving charter presently identified names his mother directly, so this maternal placement remains a chronological reconstruction rather than an explicit statement of parentage in the 1508 charter.
In 1539 Thomas is expressly described as the brother-german of Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum. Because Alexander 4th was a documented son of Sir Alexander 3rd, Thomas must likewise have been a son of Sir Alexander 3rd. The term brother-german also establishes that Thomas and Alexander 4th shared the same mother. Under the present reconstruction, Thomas therefore belongs with Alexander in Sir Alexander’s earlier family.
The 1508 Kincaldrum charter expressly identifies George as another son of Sir Alexander. The present reconstruction places him with Sir Alexander’s earlier family, although the charter itself does not name his mother. His traditional identification as George Guthrie of Kincreich should be treated separately unless supporting evidence establishes that territorial identity.
In 1518 Margaret Lyon, styled Lady Guthrie, participated in the marriage arrangements of her daughter Elizabeth Guthrie. Read together with the evidence identifying Margaret as Sir Alexander’s wife, this strongly supports Elizabeth’s placement as their daughter.
Margaret Lyon, the Earlier Wife & the Children’s Maternity
Traditional pedigrees commonly place Margaret Lyon beside Sir Alexander and then list all of his children beneath the couple. The surviving chronology does not support doing that without qualification.
On 10 June 1495 Margaret Lyon was contracted to marry James Rynd, younger of Broxmouth. The marriage took place, because on 22 March 1500/01 she appears as James Rynd’s widow.
Sir Alexander’s son David, however, was already his apparent heir by February 1495/96. David must therefore have been a child of an earlier marriage.
The 1508 charter identifies Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum, as Sir Alexander’s son but does not name his mother. The present reconstruction places Alexander with the unidentified earlier wife. That placement is based on the family chronology rather than an explicit maternal statement in the charter.
A 1539 charter adds an important relationship by identifying Thomas Guthrie as Alexander 4th’s brother-german. Thomas and Alexander therefore shared both father and mother. Once Alexander is placed in the earlier family, Thomas necessarily follows the same maternal line.
George Guthrie is directly identified as another son of Sir Alexander in 1508. His mother is likewise unstated in that charter, but the present reconstruction places him with Sir Alexander’s earlier family. That placement should remain distinguished from direct documentary proof of his mother’s identity.
Elizabeth Guthrie is much more closely associated with Margaret Lyon: in 1518 Margaret participated in the marriage arrangements of Elizabeth, explicitly describing her as her daughter.
The present reconstruction therefore places David, Alexander, Thomas and George with Sir Alexander’s unidentified earlier wife, while Elizabeth is placed with Margaret Lyon on the surviving family evidence. The mother’s personal identity in the earlier family remains unknown.
How Thomas Guthrie Fits into the Family
Thomas does not appear in the 1508 charter that directly names Alexander and George as sons of Sir Alexander. His place in the family is established by a different form of contemporary evidence.
On 29 January 1539, Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum, conveyed Carret to Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german.
In Scots and Latin legal usage, brother-german denotes a full brother. Thomas and Alexander 4th therefore shared both parents.
Since the 1508 Great Seal charter independently establishes Alexander 4th as a son of Sir Alexander Guthrie, 3rd of Kincaldrum, Thomas’s identification as Alexander’s full brother also establishes Thomas as another son of Sir Alexander 3rd.
The record does not name their mother, but it does establish that Thomas and Alexander 4th belong together maternally. Under the present reconstruction, Alexander is placed with Sir Alexander’s unidentified earlier wife; Thomas therefore belongs to that same earlier family.
Flodden & the Interrupted Guthrie Succession
Sir Alexander and his eldest son David both died with the Scottish army at the Battle of Flodden on 9 September 1513.
David had been Sir Alexander’s apparent heir, but because father and son died together, David never became the next proprietor of Guthrie. The principal Guthrie succession passed instead through David’s son Andrew Guthrie.
Kincaldrum followed a different course. Sir Alexander had already settled that estate upon Alexander, later 4th of Kincaldrum, in 1508. Flodden therefore did not create the Kincaldrum branch; the legal division had already been made during Sir Alexander’s lifetime.
What About John Guthrie of Hiltoun?
Traditional pedigrees frequently place a John Guthrie of Hiltoun among the children of Sir Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon. The documentary reconstruction developed from the Eassie and Hiltoun records does not support that placement. Contemporary records reveal more than one John associated with Hiltoun: a John Guthrie of Hiltoun is documented by 1505/06, while a later John was explicitly identified in 1544 as the son and heir of David Guthrie of Eassie. Neither record presently establishes a son of Sir Alexander and Margaret Lyon. The ancestry of these men is therefore treated separately in the Eassie & Hiltoun investigation.
Source Trail for this Generation
Kincaldrum settlement and documented sons:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 2
— Charter 3259, August 1508. The royal confirmation names
Sir Alexander, his spouse Margaret Lyon, his son Alexander
as recipient of Kincaldrum, and George Guthrie expressly
as another son.
Thomas Guthrie, brother-german of Alexander 4th:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 3
— Charter 2085, confirmed 10 February 1539/40.
The underlying charter of 29 January 1539 records
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum conveying Carret to
Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german.
Margaret Lyon’s earlier marriage:
The surviving legal chronology includes her 1495 marriage
contract with James Rynd and the 1500/01 litigation
identifying Margaret as his widow.
Legal and family chronology:
Acts of the Lords of Council
— including Sir Alexander’s 1503 appearance as
Margaret Lyon’s procurator.
Career and family cross-check:
Arbroath Abbey Registers, Part 2
— records contributing to Alexander’s career chronology,
knighthood and distinctions from other men of the same name.
Hiltoun correction:
Debunking Tradition: Charters Rewrite the Guthrie of
Hiltoun Pedigree
— documentary reassessment of John’s placement.
Alexander Guthrie
before 2 Oct 1557
reported before 20 Jul 1553
Alexander Guthrie, 4th of Kincaldrum, was the first member of the family to hold Kincaldrum after its succession had been formally separated from the principal line at Guthrie. His father, Sir Alexander Guthrie, 3rd of Kincaldrum and 2nd of Guthrie, had settled the estate upon him in 1508 while his elder brother David remained apparent heir to Guthrie.
The deaths of Sir Alexander and David at Flodden in 1513 did not alter that earlier arrangement. Kincaldrum remained with Alexander 4th, while the succession to Guthrie continued through David’s son Andrew.
The surviving records provide considerably more information about Alexander 4th’s household than older pedigrees suggest. By 1523/24 he was married to a woman recorded as Elizabeth Rait in the Register of the Great Seal and as Isobelle Raite in the Treasurer’s Accounts. Together they held important portions of the Kincaldrum estate in conjunct infeftment.
Alexander’s exact date of death remains unknown. The latest record presently identified that unquestionably requires him to have been alive is dated 29 January 1539. An earlier Kincaldrum research timeline reports that his son David was served heir to his father on 20 July 1553, but the underlying service-of-heir record has not yet been relocated. The secure evidence therefore places Alexander’s death after 29 January 1539 and before 2 October 1557, when Exchequer evidence independently shows that the succession had passed to David. If the reported 1553 service is confirmed from the underlying record, that upper boundary can be narrowed accordingly.
Alexander & Isobel / Elizabeth Rait at Kincaldrum
On 18 January 1523/24, the Crown confirmed Alexander’s resignation and regrant of the lands of Little Lour, Muirton, half of Carret and half of Little Methie to himself and Elizabeth Rait, his spouse, in conjunct infeftment.
The settlement provided the lands to Alexander and Elizabeth and the longer liver of them, followed by the lawful heirs of their marriage. If that line failed, the lands were to return to Alexander’s lawful and nearer male heirs.
The Treasurer’s Accounts record the corresponding royal composition in 1524 and name Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Isobelle Raite, his spouse . Read together, the two records firmly establish both the marriage and the couple’s joint landed interests.
Kincaldrum settled upon Alexander 4th
Sir Alexander, 3rd of Kincaldrum and 2nd of Guthrie, grants the lands and barony of Kincaldrum to his son Alexander, establishing the separate succession followed from this generation onward.
Alexander and his wife receive conjunct infeftment
RMS III, Charter 250 confirms Little Lour, Muirton, half of Carret and half of Little Methie to Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Elizabeth Rait his spouse in conjunct infeftment.
The royal composition is paid
The Treasurer’s Accounts record £13 6s. 8d. paid for confirmation of the couple’s conjunct infeftment and identify Alexander’s spouse as Isobelle Raite.
Alexander in the wider landed network
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum appears as a witness to a Great Seal transaction, one of several records demonstrating his continued participation in regional legal affairs.
Ward in Edinburgh Castle
A royal command required Alexander Guthrie of Kyncaldrum to remain in ward within Edinburgh Castle. Security was demanded under the extraordinary penalty of 5,000 merks. David Guthrie of that Ilk and John Guthrie of Balnabreich acted as his cautioners.
Alexander appears again as a witness
Later that year Alexander 4th appears as a witness to a Dundee-area charter subsequently confirmed under the Great Seal.
Carret conveyed to his full brother Thomas
Alexander 4th personally conveyed his lands of Carret to Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german. A second charter provided a quarter of the western part of Kincaldrum as warrandice for the transaction. This is the latest record presently identified that securely requires Alexander himself to have been alive.
The family transaction receives royal confirmation
RMS III, Charter 2085 confirms the earlier Carret sale and warrandice grant. Because this was a royal confirmation of instruments executed on 29 January 1539, the confirmation date does not by itself prove that Alexander 4th was still living in February 1539/40.
David is reportedly served heir to his father
The earlier Kincaldrum research timeline records David Guthrie as served heir to his father on this date. A service of heir would establish that Alexander 4th was already deceased. The exact archival reference underlying this timeline entry remains to be relocated and rechecked.
David is demonstrably in possession
The Exchequer Rolls record Crown relief arising from sasine given to David Guthrie in substantial portions of the barony, including part of the Kincaldrum mains, Kirkton of Nevay, Easter Methie, Kincreich, Wester Methie and Little Lour. This independently confirms that the Kincaldrum succession had passed to David by this date.
Alexander 4th’s Household
The 1523/24 Great Seal confirmation names Elizabeth Rait as Alexander’s spouse, while the Treasurer’s Accounts for the corresponding royal composition call her Isobelle Raite. Both records concern the couple’s conjunct infeftment in Kincaldrum lands.
David is the only child of Alexander 4th presently identified in the surviving Kincaldrum evidence. He is reported as served heir to his father on 20 July 1553 and is independently documented in possession of substantial Kincaldrum lands by 2 October 1557. He succeeded as 5th of Kincaldrum.
Isobel or Elizabeth Rait?
Two closely related contemporary records use different forms of Alexander’s wife’s given name.
RMS III, Charter 250, confirmed 18 January 1523/24, identifies Elizabeth Rait as Alexander’s spouse.
The Treasurer’s Accounts for 1524, recording the composition paid for confirmation of the same conjunct infeftment, identify Isobelle Raite as his spouse.
Rather than choosing one form and concealing the variation, this profile records her as Isobel / Elizabeth Rait(e). The difference may reflect variation in the original records, scribal usage, or later editorial rendering.
The 1539 Carret Transaction & Thomas Guthrie
On 29 January 1539, Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum, conveyed his lands of Carret to Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german.
The relationship is important genealogically. Brother-german denotes a full brother, meaning Alexander 4th and Thomas shared both father and mother.
Thomas therefore belongs to the preceding generation as another son of Sir Alexander Guthrie, 3rd of Kincaldrum and 2nd of Guthrie. He is not a child of Alexander 4th and is not included in Alexander 4th’s household listing.
The same transaction also demonstrates the flexibility of the Kincaldrum estate. Alexander conveyed Carret to Thomas and used a quarter of western Kincaldrum as warrandice for the grant.
Why Was Alexander Held in Edinburgh Castle?
The surviving royal command of 15 January 1538 is unusually vivid but does not explain the offence or political circumstance that led to Alexander’s confinement.
The Lords of Council were ordered to accept sufficient caution that Alexander Guthrie of Kyncaldrum would not escape from the king’s ward in Edinburgh Castle. The security was set at 5,000 merks.
Once that security had been found, Alexander was to be placed in “free ward” within the castle and permitted to move about inside it as he pleased. David Guthrie of that Ilk and John Guthrie of Balnabreich were named as his cautioners.
Until another record is found explaining the cause of the ward, the episode should not be assigned a motive that the surviving command itself does not provide.
How Closely Can Alexander 4th’s Death Be Dated?
No exact date of death has presently been identified for Alexander Guthrie, 4th of Kincaldrum.
The latest securely identified record requiring him to be alive is the pair of charters executed on 29 January 1539 in favor of his brother-german Thomas Guthrie.
A later royal confirmation dated 10 February 1539/40 repeats those earlier transactions, but confirmation of an earlier charter does not demonstrate that its original granter was still living.
The earlier Kincaldrum research timeline states that David Guthrie was served heir to his father on 20 July 1553. If accurately abstracted from the underlying retour, that service requires Alexander to have died before that date.
The securely documented range is therefore: Alexander 4th died sometime after 29 January 1539 and before 2 October 1557. If the reported 20 July 1553 service of heir is confirmed from the underlying record, the upper boundary can then be narrowed to that date. Until then, 1553 should remain a reported succession date rather than a firm terminus for Alexander’s death.
Source Trail for this Generation
Alexander and Elizabeth Rait:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 3
— Charter 250, 18 January 1523/24,
Images 64–65, pp. 56–57. Royal confirmation of conjunct
infeftment in Little Lour, Muirton, half of Carret and
half of Little Methie.
Isobelle Raite and the royal composition:
Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland
— Volume 5, p. 182, 1524. Records Alexander Guthrie of
Kincaldrum and Isobelle Raite his spouse paying the
composition for confirmation of their conjunct infeftment.
Edinburgh Castle ward:
Acts of the Lords of Council in Public Affairs
— p. 462, 15 January 1538. Royal command concerning
Alexander’s ward and the 5,000-merk caution.
Thomas Guthrie, brother-german:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 3
— Charter 2085, confirmed 10 February 1539/40.
The underlying instruments of 29 January 1539 record
Alexander 4th’s sale of Carret to
Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german, and the associated
warrandice grant.
Reported service of David as heir:
The earlier Kincaldrum research timeline records
20 July 1553 as the date David Guthrie
was served heir to his father. The timeline attributes the
entry to local retour, protocol-book and Exchequer evidence,
but the exact archival reference for the service remains
to be relocated.
David’s documented possession:
Exchequer Rolls of Scotland
— Volume XIX, pp. 413–414, 2 October 1557. Records relief
arising from sasine to David Guthrie in substantial
portions of the barony of Kincaldrum.
David Guthrie
Exact date unknown
David Guthrie, 5th of Kincaldrum, carried the estate through much of the second half of the sixteenth century. An earlier Kincaldrum research timeline reports that he was served heir to his father, Alexander 4th, on 20 July 1553. Although the exact archival reference for that service remains to be relocated, independent Exchequer evidence establishes David in formal possession of substantial Kincaldrum lands by 1557.
David’s documentary life is considerably easier to follow than that of several earlier holders. He appears in land records, Dundee civic history, national legal proceedings and the financial story surrounding the first Bible printed in Scotland. The succession is directly documented by 28 December 1567, when a marriage contract identifies Alexander Guthrie as David’s eldest son and apparent heir. A Privy Council record of 1591 later confirms the same father-son succession.
David died in 1593. Unlike many approximate death dates found in older pedigrees, that year is directly supported by the National Records of Scotland catalogue. NRS GD137/799 describes him as the late David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and expressly states that he died in 1593. The record does not provide a precise day or month.
The Kincaldrum Laird & Scotland’s First Printed Bible
One of the most distinctive episodes in David’s life connects Kincaldrum with the production of the Bassandyne Bible, the first Bible printed in Scotland, completed and issued in 1579.
On 18 March 1575, David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, William Guthrie of Halkerton, William Rynd of Carse and James Arbuthnot of Lentusche became sureties for Alexander Arbuthnot in the undertaking associated with Arbuthnot and Thomas Bassandyne’s printing of the Bible.
The project suffered delays and financial difficulties. Years later the sureties were still being pursued over copies that had not reached subscribers. On 18 March 1590, proceedings before the Privy Council again named David Guthrie of Kincaldrum among those charged in connection with the undelivered Bibles.
Reported service as heir
The earlier Kincaldrum research timeline records David as served heir to his father, Alexander 4th, on this date. The underlying retour reference remains to be relocated.
Formal possession of Kincaldrum lands
The Exchequer Rolls record relief arising from sasine to David Guthrie in substantial portions of the barony, including part of the Kincaldrum mains, Kirkton of Nevay, Easter Methie, Kincreich, Wester Methie and Little Lour.
Alexander is documented as David’s eldest son and apparent heir
A marriage contract preserved in a published transcription in The Douglas Book identifies Alexander Guthrie as the eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and provides for Alexander’s marriage to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie. This is presently the earliest direct evidence for the father-son succession.
Brother of the Dundee Guild
David Guthrie of Kincaldrum was admitted a Brother of the Guild of Dundee, gratis, placing the Kincaldrum laird within the commercial and civic network of the burgh.
Surety for the Scottish Bible
David joined William Guthrie of Halkerton, William Rynd of Carse and James Arbuthnot of Lentusche as sureties for Alexander Arbuthnot in the agreement for the printing and delivery of the Bible.
Further sasine in Kincaldrum lands
Exchequer Rolls XXII, p. 440 records sasine to David Guthrie of Kincaldrum in three quarters of Little Lour, the lands of Muirton, half of Carret and half of Little Methie. The record establishes formal possession; it should not be reduced simply to a statement that David “acquired Carret.”
The Bible dispute continues
Archibald Douglas of Old Aberdeen pursued David and the other surviving sureties over Bibles that Alexander Arbuthnot and Thomas Bassandyne had failed to deliver. David and the other cautioners did not appear, and the proceeding was allowed to continue against them.
The 1567 father-son succession is confirmed again
A Privy Council caution lists David Guthrie of Kincaldrum followed by Alexander Guthrie, his son and apparent heir . This independently corroborates the relationship already stated in the 1567 marriage contract.
David dies
NRS GD137/799 later records non-entry profits of part of Carret following the death of the late David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, who died in 1593. No exact death date is supplied.
The succession moves to Alexander 6th
Exchequer Rolls XXII records sasine proceedings in favor of Alexander Guthrie for lands within the barony of Kincaldrum after periods of non-entry. The details of that delayed succession belong to the next generation.
David 5th’s Family — What the Evidence Supports
Older Kincaldrum pedigrees identify David’s wife as Janet Kerr. Later succession evidence concerning their son Alexander describes Sir John Kerr as Alexander’s maternal grandfather, providing support for a Kerr mother. The contemporary instrument directly naming David’s spouse as Janet has not yet been relocated, so the given name should remain distinguished from the better-supported Kerr relationship.
A marriage contract dated 28 December 1567, preserved in a published transcription in The Douglas Book, identifies Alexander as David’s eldest son and apparent heir. A Privy Council record of 27 March 1591 independently confirms him as David’s son and apparent heir. Following David’s death in 1593, Alexander entered the Kincaldrum succession, although the Exchequer records show that completion of his sasine was not entirely straightforward.
A Kincaldrum charter executed in 1594 identifies Patrick Guthrie as the brother-german of Alexander, 6th of Kincaldrum . Because Alexander was the documented son and heir of David 5th, Patrick’s status as Alexander’s full brother places him as another son of David. The term brother-german also indicates that Alexander and Patrick shared the same mother.
Janet Kerr & the Evidence for Alexander’s Mother
The established pedigree names David’s wife Janet Kerr, but the evidence presently in hand does not have equal strength for every part of that identification.
Later Kincaldrum succession material reports that Alexander, 6th of Kincaldrum, obtained lands that had been acquired by Sir John Kerr, his maternal grandfather. If accurately abstracted from the underlying instrument, this provides strong evidence that Alexander’s mother belonged to the Kerr family.
What still needs to be relocated is a contemporary record directly naming David’s wife as Janet. Until then, this profile retains the traditional name while distinguishing it from the stronger evidence for the Kerr relationship itself.
The 1594 statement that Patrick Guthrie was Alexander’s brother-german means that the two men had the same mother. Whatever the final identification of David’s wife proves to be, it therefore applies to both Alexander and Patrick.
A Newly Visible Son: Patrick Guthrie
Patrick does not appear in the older short pedigree for David, 5th of Kincaldrum, which lists only Alexander. His relationship emerges from the later property evidence.
In the charter connected with the 1594 Kincaldrum marriage settlement of the next generation, Patrick Guthrie is expressly called the brother-german of Alexander Guthrie.
Since Alexander is independently documented as the son and apparent heir of David 5th, Patrick’s identification as Alexander’s full brother places Patrick in this generation as another son of David.
This Patrick should not be confused with the later Rev. Patrick Guthrie, Regent and Sub-Principal of King’s College and minister of Logie-Buchan. Fasti identifies that later Patrick as a son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum, making him a member of the following generation rather than this one.
A Caution About the Dundee Burgess Commentary
The Dundee burgess material is valuable for the civic event itself: David Guthrie of Kincaldrum was admitted a Brother of the Guild on 12 January 1574.
The nineteenth-century published commentary accompanying that entry, however, attempts to identify this David as a son of Andrew Guthrie and Christian Gardyne and as part of the contemporary Guthrie-of-Guthrie household.
That genealogical explanation conflicts with the Kincaldrum succession reconstructed from the land records. The admission to the Guild can therefore be used as evidence for David’s civic standing without adopting the editor’s accompanying pedigree.
The Bassandyne Bible Bond
The effort to print a complete Bible within Scotland was a major undertaking. Alexander Arbuthnot and Thomas Bassandyne accepted responsibility for the printing, while substantial men stood as financial sureties for performance of the agreement.
The bond dated 18 March 1575 names David Guthrie of Kincaldrum among the sureties for Alexander Arbuthnot, together with William Guthrie of Halkerton, William Rynd of Carse and James Arbuthnot of Lentusche.
The completed Bassandyne Bible was issued in 1579 and is recognized as the first Bible printed in Scotland.
Difficulties continued long after the printing itself. Subscribers who had advanced money pursued the printers and their cautioners for copies that had not been delivered.
On 18 March 1590, David and the other sureties were again named in proceedings concerning the outstanding Bibles. The episode therefore remained part of David’s legal affairs approximately fifteen years after he first entered the undertaking.
David’s Death & the 1593–1594 Succession
David’s death year is unusually well supported for this portion of the Kincaldrum pedigree.
NRS GD137/799, dated 28 February 1593/94, concerns the non-entry mails and profits of half of Carret following the death of the late David Guthrie of Kincaldrum. The catalogue description explicitly states that David died in 1593.
This gives us the year but not an exact date. The profile should therefore use 1593, rather than inventing a day and month from a later succession record.
Exchequer records in 1594 then document attempts to give Alexander formal sasine in the Kincaldrum lands after periods of non-entry. Further proceedings in 1598 show that the process was more complicated than a single immediate transfer after David’s death.
Source Trail for this Generation
Early succession and possession:
Exchequer Rolls of Scotland
— Volume XIX, pp. 413–414, 2 October 1557; records sasine
to David Guthrie in substantial Kincaldrum lands.
Dundee Guild:
Roll of Eminent Burgesses of Dundee, 1513–1886,
pp. 46–47 — 12 January 1574, David Guthrie of Kincaldrum
admitted a Brother of the Guild, gratis. The later
genealogical commentary accompanying the entry should be
treated separately from the civic record.
The Bible undertaking:
Records of the Privy Council concerning Alexander Arbuthnot
and Thomas Bassandyne; bond dated 18 March 1575. David
Guthrie of Kincaldrum appears among Arbuthnot’s sureties.
The Bible itself was completed and issued in 1579, while
related proceedings involving the sureties continued
through 1590.
1590 Kincaldrum sasine:
Exchequer Rolls of Scotland
— Volume XXII, p. 440. Sasine to David Guthrie of
Kincaldrum in three quarters of Little Lour, Muirton,
half of Carret and half of Little Methie.
Alexander as eldest son and apparent heir:
Sir William Fraser, The Douglas Book, Vol. III,
p. 263, Charter 211 — published transcription of the marriage
contract dated 28 December 1567, identifying
Alexander Guthrie as the eldest son and apparent heir
of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and providing for his
marriage to Alice Douglas of Glenbervie.
Later confirmation of the succession:
Privy Council proceedings, 27 March 1591, naming
David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and
Alexander Guthrie, his son and apparent heir.
David’s death:
National Records of Scotland,
GD137/799, 28 February 1593/94.
Gift concerning non-entry profits following the death of
the late David Guthrie of Kincaldrum; the catalogue
expressly records that he died in 1593.
Patrick as Alexander’s full brother:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 6
— Charter 1935, confirming the 1594 Kincaldrum marriage
settlement. Patrick Guthrie appears among the witnesses as
brother-german of Alexander Guthrie.
Transition to Alexander 6th:
Exchequer Rolls of Scotland
— Volume XXII, pp. 502–503, 27 June 1594, followed by
further proceedings in Volume XXIII, pp. 404–405, 1598.
Alexander Guthrie
before 30 Jun 1607
Alexander Guthrie, 6th of Kincaldrum, inherited an estate whose legal succession proved more complicated than a simple father-to-son transfer. His place in the succession is documented much earlier than the 1591 references alone suggest. A marriage contract dated 28 December 1567 identifies him as the eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum. The 1591 Privy Council records later corroborate that position. After David’s death in 1593, however, Exchequer records show periods of non-entry and repeated efforts to complete Alexander’s formal possession of the Kincaldrum lands.
His family evidence presents another complication. The 1567 marriage contract, preserved in a published transcription in The Douglas Book, provides direct evidence for Alexander’s marriage to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie. A later Kincaldrum settlement of 1615 identifies Alise Douglas as the mother of his son David and reserves a liferent to her. Yet the 1594 Kincaldrum settlement calls Helene Douglas Alexander’s spouse.
Rather than silently combining these names or forcing them into a simple sequence of marriages, this profile keeps the conflict visible. The surviving evidence does not yet explain whether Helene represents another marriage under circumstances not yet recovered, an error in one of the records or its transmission, or some other legal or family situation.
Alice / Alise Douglas and Helene Douglas
Three pieces of evidence have to be reconciled:
1567: a published transcription of the marriage contract dated 28 December 1567 identifies Alexander Guthrie, eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, and provides for his marriage to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie.
1594: the Great Seal settlement for Alexander’s son David and Katherine Blair names Helene Douglas as Alexander’s spouse.
1615: a later Kincaldrum marriage settlement, preserved in RMS VIII:2216, explicitly identifies Alise Douglas as the mother of David Guthrie and reserves a liferent for her in the lands of Lour.
The evidence therefore directly documents Alexander’s marriage to Alice Douglas in 1567, identifies Alice / Alise as the mother of David in the later settlement, and separately identifies Helene Douglas as Alexander’s spouse in 1594. Those records cannot yet be reduced to a secure marital sequence.
A Succession That Took Several Years to Complete
David 5th died in 1593, but Alexander’s entry into all of the Kincaldrum lands was not completed in one straightforward transaction.
On 27 June 1594, the Exchequer recorded relief due through sasine to Alexander for groups of lands that had remained in the Crown’s hands during periods of non-entry.
On 27 April 1598, the matter returned to the Exchequer. Alexander asserted that he had not actually obtained sasine under the earlier 1594 chancery precept. New entries then recorded the formal completion of his possession.
Marriage contract with Alice Douglas
A surviving published transcription identifies Alexander as the eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and provides for his marriage to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie. The contract also sets out the intended Kincaldrum property provisions for the couple.
Alexander as fiar of Kincaldrum
Alexander, styled fiar of Kincaldrum, became cautioner in £10,000 for William Douglas, Master of Angus, concerning the latter’s required departure from Scotland. The record places Alexander firmly in the expected succession during his father’s lifetime.
David 5th dies
Alexander’s father died during this year, opening the succession to Kincaldrum.
Marriage contract for the next generation
Agreements at Kincaldrum and Balgillo arranged the marriage of Alexander’s legitimate son and apparent heir David Guthrie to Katherine Blair.
The first Exchequer sasine entries
The Crown accounts record relief connected with sasine to Alexander in extensive Kincaldrum lands after periods of non-entry.
Alexander settles Kincaldrum on David
Alexander, with consent of Helene Douglas his spouse, granted the Kincaldrum manor, mill and extensive associated lands to David and Katherine Blair under their marriage settlement, while reserving liferent interests to himself.
The incomplete 1594 sasine is revisited
Alexander stated that he had not obtained sasine under the earlier chancery precept of 27 June 1594. The Exchequer consequently recorded the renewed completion of his entry into the Kincaldrum lands.
Alexander elder and David younger of Kincaldrum
Criminal proceedings name Alexander Guthrie, elder of Kincaldrum and David Guthrie, younger of Kincaldrum among several men accused in connection with the 1599 slaughter of James Guthrie. The matter was continued and remitted to the Justice Ayre of Forfar; the entry should not be read as establishing guilt.
Alexander’s last securely identified living appearance
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum witnessed a charter at Dundee concerning lands of Glenboy. This is presently the latest record identified in which Alexander personally acts as a witness and therefore unquestionably requires him to have been alive.
Alexander is deceased
RMS VI, Charter 1935 confirms the 1594 Kincaldrum settlement and expressly describes its original granter as the late Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum. Alexander therefore died sometime after 9 June 1601 and before this confirmation.
Posthumous evidence identifies David’s mother
A later marriage settlement for Alexander’s grandson identifies Alise Douglas as the mother of David Guthrie and reserves to her a liferent in the dominical lands of Lour. The instrument was later confirmed under the Great Seal.
Alexander 6th’s Family — What the Evidence Supports
A marriage contract dated 28 December 1567, preserved in a published transcription in The Douglas Book, provides for the marriage of Alexander Guthrie, eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie. The 1615 Kincaldrum settlement later identifies Alise Douglas as the mother of David Guthrie and reserves a liferent to her. Her relationship to the Helene Douglas named as Alexander’s spouse in 1594 remains unresolved.
RMS VI, Charter 1935 preserves the 1594 Kincaldrum settlement in which Alexander acts with consent of Helene Douglas, his spouse. The record does not identify Helene as David’s mother.
The 1594 marriage settlement explicitly calls David the legitimate son and apparent heir of Alexander 6th. David married Katherine Blair and received extensive Kincaldrum lands under the settlement. A later record identifies Alise Douglas as his mother.
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ identifies Patrick Guthrie, later Regent and Sub-Principal of King’s College and minister of Logie-Buchan, as a son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum. Later property records identify Patrick as the brother-german of David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum. Because David is independently documented as a son of Alexander 6th and as the son of Alise Douglas, the brother-german relationship establishes that Patrick and David shared both parents. Patrick can therefore also be identified as a son of Alexander Guthrie, 6th of Kincaldrum, and Alise Douglas.
Alice, Alise or Helene Douglas?
This is not simply a matter of spelling variation. Alice / Alise and Helene are different given names, and the surviving references occur in different contexts.
A 28 December 1567 marriage contract, preserved in a published transcription in The Douglas Book, identifies Alexander as the eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and provides for his marriage to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie.
The 1594 Kincaldrum settlement preserved in RMS VI, Charter 1935 names Helene Douglas as Alexander’s spouse.
The later 1615 settlement preserved in RMS VIII, Charter 2216 identifies Alise Douglas as the mother of David Guthrie and reserves a liferent to her.
The later evidence also clarifies the maternity of two of Alexander’s sons. The 1615 settlement explicitly identifies Alise Douglas as the mother of David Guthrie, while subsequent property records describe Rev. Patrick Guthrie as David’s brother-german. Because full brothers shared both parents, Alise Douglas was also Patrick’s mother.
What remains unresolved is the relationship between Alice / Alise Douglas and Helene Douglas, who is explicitly called Alexander’s spouse in the 1594 Kincaldrum settlement. A simple assumption of successive marriages does not by itself reconcile the evidence, particularly because the 1615 settlement still reserves a liferent to Alise. The explanation may involve a marital or legal circumstance not yet recovered, an error in one of the records or its transmission, or another possibility that cannot presently be demonstrated.
Two Patrick Guthries — Uncle and Nephew
The repeated name Patrick Guthrie creates another opportunity for confusion in this part of the pedigree.
In the 1594 Kincaldrum charter, Patrick Guthrie is called the brother-german of Alexander, 6th of Kincaldrum. That Patrick therefore belongs to Generation 5 as another son of David, 5th of Kincaldrum.
A different Patrick appears in the next generation. Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ identifies Rev. Patrick Guthrie, Regent and later Sub-Principal of King’s College and minister of Logie-Buchan, as a son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum.
Rev. Patrick was therefore the nephew of the Patrick who appears as Alexander 6th’s full brother in the 1594 charter. The two men should not be merged.
The Reported Kerr Maternal Inheritance
The earlier Kincaldrum chronology records another potentially important event under 31 May 1598.
It reports that Alexander obtained sasine of lands acquired by Sir John Kerr, described as his maternal grandfather, from Alexander’s paternal grandfather, Alexander Guthrie of Guthrie and Kincaldrum. The same summary states that Alexander was served heir to his mother.
If the underlying instrument confirms that wording, it provides valuable support for the traditional Kerr maternity in the preceding generation. The exact archival record behind that older timeline entry should therefore be relocated before its details are treated as independently verified primary evidence.
How Closely Can Alexander 6th’s Death Be Dated?
Alexander’s exact death date is not presently known.
On 9 June 1601, he personally witnessed a charter at Dundee and was styled Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum. This securely establishes that he was alive on that date.
A 1606 Great Seal charter includes Alexander of Kincaldrum within a succession tailzie for another Guthrie family. Because that is a passive placement in an entail rather than a personal act by Alexander, this profile does not use it as his last-known-living date.
On 30 June 1607, RMS VI:1935 expressly describes him as the late Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum.
The defensible present range is therefore: died after 9 June 1601 and before 30 June 1607.
Source Trail for this Generation
1567 marriage contract and earliest direct heirship evidence:
Sir William Fraser, The Douglas Book, Vol. III,
p. 263, Charter 211 — transcription of the marriage contract
dated 28 December 1567 between
Alexander Guthrie, eldest son and apparent heir of
David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, and
Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas
of Glenbervie.
Alexander as fiar in 1591:
Criminal Trials & Other Proceedings
— 21 May 1591; Alexander Guthrie, fiar of Kincaldrum,
acts as cautioner for William Douglas, Master of Angus.
1594 and 1598 succession:
Exchequer Rolls of Scotland
— Volume XXII, pp. 502–503, 27 June 1594, and
Volume XXIII, pp. 404–405, 27 April 1598.
The later entry records Alexander’s assertion that he had
not obtained sasine under the earlier chancery precept.
David and Katherine Blair; Helene Douglas:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 6
— Charter 1935, Image 711, p. 703, confirmed
30 June 1607. Preserves the 1594 marriage settlement,
names Helene Douglas as Alexander’s spouse, David as his
legitimate son and apparent heir, and Patrick Guthrie as
Alexander’s brother-german.
Last securely living appearance:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 6
— Charter 1892, underlying charter witnessed at Dundee
on 9 June 1601 by Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum.
Alise Douglas as David’s mother:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 8
— Charter 2216. The underlying Kincaldrum settlement of
17 November 1615 identifies Alise Douglas as the mother
of David Guthrie and reserves a liferent to her in Lour.
Rev. Patrick Guthrie:
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ
— Volume 8, p. 575; identifies Patrick Guthrie,
later Regent, Sub-Principal and minister of Logie-Buchan,
as a son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum.
David Guthrie
1629–1630
Named in records through 1635
David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum, is the man who brought Kincaldrum and Guthrie back into the hands of the same branch of the family. More than a century after the two landed successions had separated, David acquired the principal lands of Guthrie from William Guthrie of that Ilk.
The reunion was not an inheritance. David belonged to the collateral Kincaldrum line, while William represented the succession then holding Guthrie. Their transaction was a sale of property from one Guthrie branch to another. After that purchase, David appears as David Guthrie of that Ilk and is numbered on this profile as the 8th holder of Guthrie.
His family is unusually well documented. His marriage to Katherine Blair formed part of the 1594 settlement by which David received Kincaldrum from his father. Their eldest son Alexander was later placed in fee of Kincaldrum, while contemporary charter evidence also identifies two additional sons, William and Master Archibald Guthrie.
1594 — David & Katherine Blair
The marriage contract was arranged at Kincaldrum and Balgillo on 10 and 15 June 1594. Alexander Guthrie, 6th of Kincaldrum, then granted the Kincaldrum estate to his legitimate son and apparent heir David Guthrie and David’s affianced wife Katherine Blair.
Katherine was the legitimate daughter of William Blair, son and apparent heir of John Blair of Balgillo. The formal charter was executed on 22 July 1594 and later confirmed under the Great Seal on 30 June 1607.
Kincaldrum Returns to Guthrie
By 1621 David had already received sasine in several lands belonging to the Barony of Guthrie, including Heughhead, Mylnetoun, Eastertoun and Kirktoun of Guthrie .
The decisive transfer came later. On 10 September 1629, William Guthrie of that Ilk, with consent of his wife Isabella Fenton, sold the principal lands and rights of Guthrie to David irredeemably. The Crown confirmed the sale on 24 July 1630.
The transaction included the old Kirktoun or mains of Guthrie, tower and manor-place, mill and mill lands, Teiltoun, Eastertoun, Mylnetoun, the patronage associated with the collegiate church and other rights. Hiltoun and Langlands were expressly excepted.
Marriage settlement with Katherine Blair
David, legitimate son and apparent heir of Alexander 6th, receives the Kincaldrum estate in connection with his marriage to Katherine Blair of the Balgillo family.
The Kincaldrum settlement receives royal confirmation
The Great Seal confirms the earlier grant made by David’s now-deceased father, Alexander 6th. David is thereby firmly established in the continuing Kincaldrum succession.
Obligation involving Ballandro
An extract preserved by the National Library of Scotland records an obligation by David Guthrie of Kincaldrum to Robert Falconer of Ballandro. It was registered in 1629.
Alexander is placed in the next Kincaldrum succession
David and Katherine Blair arranged the marriage settlement of their son and apparent heir Alexander Guthrie with Mariote Grahame, daughter of Sir William Grahame of Claverhouse. Extensive Kincaldrum lands were settled upon the couple.
David receives sasine in Guthrie lands
A National Records of Scotland instrument records sasine to David of Kincaldrum in Heughhead of Guthrie, Mylnetoun, Eastertoun, Kirktoun of Guthrie and other lands under charters granted by William Guthrie of that Ilk with consent of Isabella Fenton.
Wadsets begin in favor of David’s brother Patrick
Two contracts placed portions of the Guthrie estate in security to Master Patrick Guthrie, David’s brother-german , then minister of Kembothock.
The whole Barony of Guthrie is wadset to Patrick
David placed the whole barony, together with the patronage of the kirk of Guthrie and associated rights, in wadset to his brother Rev. Patrick Guthrie, then minister of Logie-Buchan, redeemable for 19,000 merks.
David purchases the principal Guthrie estate
William Guthrie of that Ilk and Isabella Fenton sold the principal lands and rights of Guthrie to David Guthrie of Kincaldrum irredeemably.
The Crown confirms David’s acquisition
RMS VIII, Charter 1616 confirms William’s sale. The underlying charter also names Alexander Guthrie, feodatar of Kincaldrum and William and Master Archibald Guthrie, sons of David.
David is styled “of that Ilk”
A Great Seal transaction involving Hiltoun and related lands identifies David Guthrie of that Ilk and Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum, his eldest legitimate son and apparent heir . The wording clearly distinguishes father and son while the family held interests associated with both landed identities.
The 1615 Kincaldrum marriage settlement is confirmed
RMS VIII, Charter 2216 confirms David and Katherine Blair’s settlement upon their son Alexander and Mariote Grahame. It also identifies Alise Douglas as David’s mother.
Alexander sells Kincaldrum
David’s son Alexander, 8th of Kincaldrum, sold the Barony of Kincaldrum to Sir John Blair of Balgillo. The transaction reserved to his father David a liferent in half of Carret.
Guthrie passes absolutely to Rev. Patrick
After the earlier wadsets, David and his son Alexander made an absolute and irredeemable disposition of the Barony of Guthrie to Rev. Patrick Guthrie, David’s brother.
David remains the subject of Kincaldrum legal proceedings
NLS Ch.15043–15046 preserve a sequence of horning, apprising, decreet of apprising and intimation at the instance of Francis Ogilvie of Newgrange against David Guthrie of Kincaldrum. The last of these is dated 20 May 1635.
David 7th’s Family — Reconstructed from the Records
Katherine is directly identified in the 1594 Kincaldrum marriage settlement as David’s affianced spouse and as the legitimate daughter of William Blair, son and apparent heir of John Blair of Balgillo. The later 1615 family settlement again identifies her as David’s spouse.
Alexander is directly documented as David and Katherine’s son in the 1615 marriage settlement. By 1632 he is expressly called David’s eldest legitimate son and apparent heir . He married Mariote Grahame and was placed in fee of Kincaldrum during his father’s lifetime.
The 1629 charter by which William Guthrie of that Ilk sold the principal Guthrie estate to David names William Guthrie as a son of David among its witnesses. The record does not independently identify his mother.
The same 1629 charter explicitly identifies Master Archibald Guthrie as another son of David. His use of “Master” indicates university education or graduate status, although this particular charter does not provide his later career.
Elizabeth has been included in the established Kincaldrum family reconstruction as a daughter of David and Katherine. A contemporary document directly stating her parentage has not yet been identified in the evidence reviewed for this revision, so her placement is retained with that qualification.
David Did Not Inherit Guthrie
Older pedigrees can give the impression that David followed William Guthrie of that Ilk because William’s branch had failed and David was simply the next heir. The contemporary property evidence shows something different.
William Guthrie of that Ilk still had children. The transfer of Guthrie occurred because William and his wife Isabella Fenton sold the estate to David.
The underlying charter was executed at Guthrie on 10 September 1629 and expressly describes the conveyance as irredeemable. The Crown confirmed it on 24 July 1630.
David therefore becomes 8th of Guthrie in the numbering used on this site because he was the next holder of the principal estate — not because he inherited it from William.
Why Do Guthrie Records Begin Before the 1629 Sale?
David’s connection with the lands of Guthrie did not begin suddenly in September 1629.
A National Records of Scotland instrument dated 24 April 1621 records sasine to David Guthrie of Kincaldrum in several lands within the Barony of Guthrie under charters granted by William Guthrie of that Ilk and Isabella Fenton.
David therefore already possessed legal interests in portions of Guthrie before the later transaction.
The 1629 charter is nevertheless the decisive document for the principal estate because it records the irredeemable sale of the core lands, tower and manor-place, mill, associated lands and collegiate church patronage to David.
The two dates should therefore be preserved rather than compressed into a single acquisition event: earlier possession of specified Guthrie lands by 1621, followed by the principal irredeemable sale in 1629–30.
David & His Brother Rev. Patrick Guthrie
David’s brother Rev. Patrick Guthrie became increasingly important to the Guthrie estate through a series of financial transactions.
The surviving account of the 1624 contracts expressly describes Patrick as David’s brother-german. The term denotes a full brother.
Portions of Guthrie were first wadset to Patrick under contracts dated in 1624. On 22 May 1629, David wadset the whole barony and its church patronage to Patrick for 19,000 merks.
A wadset was a security arrangement and should not be confused with outright ownership. The decisive change came on 12 December 1633, when David and his son Alexander made an absolute and irredeemable disposition of Guthrie to Patrick.
Patrick therefore became the next numbered holder of Guthrie through a sequence of financial and property transactions, not through an ordinary inheritance from his brother.
David Did Not Sell Kincaldrum in 1633
This distinction is important because older versions of the Kincaldrum pedigree have blurred the identities of father and son.
The seller on 29 November 1633 was Alexander Guthrie, 8th of Kincaldrum, David’s son.
Alexander sold the Barony of Kincaldrum to Sir John Blair of Balgillo. The charter specifically identifies David Guthrie as Alexander’s father and reserves to David a liferent in half of Carret.
The Crown confirmed the transaction on 27 June 1635.
The record therefore also disproves the older claim that Alexander had already died before Kincaldrum was sold. Alexander himself executed the sale.
What Do We Know About David’s Death?
No reliable exact death date has yet been identified for David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum and later 8th of Guthrie.
He was clearly living when his son Alexander sold Kincaldrum on 29 November 1633, since the transaction reserved a lifetime interest in half of Carret to David.
National Library of Scotland records continue to name David as the party against whom Francis Ogilvie of Newgrange pursued horning and apprising proceedings from 26 March through 20 May 1635.
Those legal records demonstrate that litigation involving David continued into 1635, but until the original instruments are examined they should not be used to invent a precise death date.
The safest present entry is therefore simply: death date unknown; records concerning David continue into 1635.
Source Trail for this Generation
David and Katherine Blair; 1594 settlement:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 6
— Charter 1935, confirmed 30 June 1607.
Preserves the 1594 marriage contract and settlement of
Kincaldrum upon David and Katherine.
Kincaldrum family papers:
National Library of Scotland — Guthrie Entries
— Ch.15040–15047, covering Kincaldrum family and legal
records from 1611 through 1635.
1621 Guthrie sasine:
National Records of Scotland, GD137 —
Instrument of Sasine, 24 April 1621, in favor of
David Guthrie of Kincaldrum in Heughhead of Guthrie,
Mylnetoun, Eastertoun, Kirktoun of Guthrie and other lands.
Purchase of Guthrie; sons William and Archibald:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 8
— Charter 1616, confirmed 24 July 1630.
Preserves William Guthrie of that Ilk’s 10 September 1629
irredeemable sale to David and names Alexander,
William and Master Archibald in the family context.
David of that Ilk and Alexander his eldest son:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 8
— Charter 1956, 25 March 1632.
Identifies David as of that Ilk and Alexander of
Kincaldrum as his eldest legitimate son and apparent heir.
Alexander and Mariote Grahame:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 8
— Charter 2216, 31 July 1633.
Confirms the 1615 marriage settlement and identifies
Alise Douglas as David’s mother.
Sale of Kincaldrum:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 9
— Charter 323, confirmed 27 June 1635.
Preserves Alexander 8th’s sale of Kincaldrum to
Sir John Blair of Balgillo on 29 November 1633 and the
liferent reservation to his father David.
1635 legal proceedings involving David:
National Library of Scotland — Guthrie Entries
— Ch.15043–15046, 26 March–20 May 1635.
Alexander Guthrie
Death unknown
Alexander Guthrie, 8th of Kincaldrum, was the final Guthrie proprietor of the estate — but not because he died and left his father to dispose of it. Contemporary records show that Alexander himself remained active throughout the period in which Kincaldrum passed out of the family.
Alexander was the eldest legitimate son and apparent heir of David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum and later 8th of Guthrie, and Katherine Blair. His marriage to Mariote Grahame, daughter of Sir William Grahame of Claverhouse, was arranged in 1615. Under that settlement he received extensive Kincaldrum lands during his father’s lifetime.
By the early 1630s father and son were simultaneously involved in the complicated restructuring of the family’s two principal estates. David had acquired Guthrie, while Alexander held Kincaldrum in fee. In 1633 they participated in transactions that sent those estates in different directions: Alexander sold Kincaldrum to Sir John Blair of Balgillo, while David and Alexander transferred Guthrie absolutely to Rev. Patrick Guthrie.
1615 — Alexander & Mariote Grahame
The marriage arrangements joined Kincaldrum with the Grahames of Claverhouse. David Guthrie and Katherine Blair settled extensive lands upon their son Alexander Guthrie and his future spouse Mariote Grahame, legitimate daughter of Sir William Grahame of Claverhouse.
The grant included the mains and manor-place of Kincaldrum, its mill, Muirton, portions of Wester Methie and Carret, tenandries in Nevay, Easter Methie and Kincreich, and lands associated with Lour, subject to the detailed liferents reserved for earlier generations.
The charter was executed at Dundee on 17 November 1615 and was eventually confirmed under the Great Seal on 31 July 1633.
1633 — Alexander Himself Sells Kincaldrum
On 29 November 1633, Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum sold the lands and Barony of Kincaldrum to Sir John Blair of Balgillo and his heirs and assignees, without redemption.
The conveyance included the Kincaldrum mains, Buchtihillok, the mill, Lour, Muirton, associated pendicles, Alexander’s portions of Carret and Wester Methie, and the tenandries of Nevay, Easter Methie, Kincreich, Wester Methie and Lour, together with the manor-place.
One reservation is genealogically especially valuable: Alexander reserved to his father David Guthrie a liferent in half of Carret. The charter therefore identifies the seller and his father in the same transaction.
The Crown confirmed Alexander’s sale on 27 June 1635.
Marriage arranged with Mariote Grahame
David Guthrie and Katherine Blair settle extensive Kincaldrum lands upon their son Alexander and his future wife Mariote Grahame. The charter was executed 17 November 1615.
Alexander younger of Kincaldrum and his brother William
Privy Council proceedings name Alexander Guthrie, younger of Kincaldrum, William Guthrie, his brother, and Alexander Guthrie of Gagie in an armed incident concerning the forcible recovery of a man recruited for service under the King of Denmark. The record documents the sibling relationship as well as Alexander’s status during his father’s lifetime.
Alexander appears in the Guthrie estate transaction
The Crown confirms William Guthrie of that Ilk’s sale of the principal Guthrie estate to Alexander’s father David. Alexander appears in the family and property context as feodatar of Kincaldrum.
David’s eldest legitimate son and apparent heir
A Great Seal charter expressly identifies Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum as the eldest legitimate son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of that Ilk.
The 1615 settlement is confirmed
RMS VIII, Charter 2216 confirms the Kincaldrum marriage settlement made for Alexander and Mariote Grahame.
Alexander sells Kincaldrum
Alexander himself conveys the Barony of Kincaldrum irredeemably to Sir John Blair of Balgillo. His father David’s liferent in half of Carret is reserved.
Alexander joins his father in the Guthrie disposition
Only days after the Kincaldrum sale, David and Alexander made the Barony of Guthrie absolutely and irredeemably over to David’s brother Rev. Patrick Guthrie, converting the earlier wadset arrangements into outright ownership.
Justice of the Peace for Forfar
The Privy Council commission appointing Justices of the Peace for Forfar includes Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum. This contemporary record demonstrates that Alexander remained publicly active after the 1633 sale.
The Crown confirms the sale of Kincaldrum
RMS IX, Charter 323 confirms Alexander’s charter of 29 November 1633 to Sir John Blair of Balgillo. The confirmation again identifies Alexander as the seller and David as his father.
Alexander still appears in litigation
NLS Ch.15047 is a decreet in the case of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrome against Isobel Falconer and her husband John Ogilvy in Turing. This is the latest dated record presently identified for Alexander.
Alexander 8th’s Household
Mariote was the legitimate daughter of Sir William Grahame of Claverhouse. The 1615 marriage settlement placed substantial Kincaldrum lands upon Alexander and Mariote in conjunct infeftment, with succession provisions for their lawful male heirs.
No child of Alexander and Mariote has yet been identified in the contemporary records reviewed for this revision. Earlier pedigrees state that Alexander died “without issue,” but the evidence presently in hand does not prove that negative. This profile therefore records no presently identified children rather than asserting that the couple was childless.
Correcting the 1633 Death Story
The older Kincaldrum profile stated that Alexander died in or before 1633 and that his death caused his father David to sell the estate.
The Great Seal evidence directly contradicts that reconstruction.
RMS IX, Charter 323 confirms a charter made at Dundee on 29 November 1633 by Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum himself. Alexander was the seller; Sir John Blair of Balgillo was the purchaser.
The charter additionally reserves a liferent in half of Carret to David Guthrie, Alexander’s father. David was therefore not acting because Alexander had died.
Nor does Alexander disappear after the sale. He is named among the Justices of the Peace for Forfar in September 1634 and appears as a party to an NLS decreet dated 8 December 1635.
The earlier death date should therefore be discarded. Alexander’s exact date of death remains unknown.
Why Was Kincaldrum Sold?
The charter provides a financial context but does not give us a narrative explanation of the family’s motives.
Alexander’s conveyance to Sir John Blair was made in connection with the satisfaction or redemption of letters of obligation dated with the transaction. The estate itself was conveyed without redemption.
This places the sale within the family’s wider financial and legal arrangements, but it would go beyond the record to describe it confidently as a planned “consolidation,” a response to Alexander’s death, or evidence that the family had no heirs.
What we can document is simpler: Alexander sold Kincaldrum to satisfy obligations, while reserving his father’s lifetime interest in half of Carret.
Why Is He Still Called “of Kincaldrum” After the Sale?
Alexander continues to appear as Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum in records after the November 1633 conveyance.
Territorial designations did not necessarily vanish from legal and administrative usage on the instant a property transaction was completed. Existing documents, social identification and the stages required to perfect a conveyance could all preserve an established designation.
The important point for this profile is not to interpret every later use of “of Kincaldrum” as proof that Alexander still owned the entire barony. The 1633 charter establishes that he had conveyed the estate to Sir John Blair; the later records establish that Alexander himself remained active.
Did Alexander & Mariote Have Children?
The older pedigree states that Alexander died without issue. At present, that conclusion is stronger than the evidence we have reviewed.
The 1615 settlement certainly anticipated children: extensive Kincaldrum lands were granted to Alexander and Mariote Grahame with succession provisions for the lawful male heirs of their marriage.
That provision was normal prospective marriage-settlement language and does not prove that children were subsequently born.
Conversely, the later sale of Kincaldrum does not by itself prove that the couple had no children.
Until a record explicitly identifies a child, heir, or failure of issue, the most accurate statement is: no children of Alexander and Mariote are presently identified in the surviving evidence reviewed.
Source Trail for this Generation
Marriage to Mariote Grahame:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 8
— Charter 2216, confirmed 31 July 1633.
Preserves David Guthrie and Katherine Blair’s 1615
settlement upon their son Alexander and his future spouse
Mariote Grahame.
Alexander younger of Kincaldrum and brother William:
Register of the Privy Council of Scotland — Second Series
— Volume 8, p. 379, 5 June 1627.
Alexander younger of Kincaldrum and William Guthrie,
his brother, are named in proceedings concerning the
recovery of a recruited soldier.
Alexander as David’s eldest son and apparent heir:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 8
— Charter 1956, 25 March 1632.
Sale of Kincaldrum:
Register of the Great Seal — Volume 9
— Charter 323, confirmed 27 June 1635,
Images 137–138, pp. 127–128.
Preserves Alexander’s charter made at Dundee on
29 November 1633 selling the Barony of Kincaldrum to
Sir John Blair of Balgillo and reserving his father
David’s liferent in half of Carret.
Justice of the Peace:
Register of the Privy Council of Scotland — Second Series
— Volume 5, pp. 385–386,
18 September 1634.
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum is included among the
Justices of the Peace for Forfar.
Latest presently identified record:
National Library of Scotland — Guthrie Entries
— Ch.15047, 8 December 1635.
Decreet in the case of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrome
against Isobel Falconer and John Ogilvy in Turing,
her spouse.
Family & Property Timeline
The history of the Guthries of Kincaldrum is not a simple father-to-son march through a single estate. Kincaldrum existed before Guthrie ownership, was later held alongside the lands of Guthrie, separated from that succession in 1508, and briefly reconnected with Guthrie more than a century later.
The timeline below follows family succession, newly documented relationships, and movement of the land .
A Reported Early Grant of Kincaldrum
Later accounts report that Sir Thomas Wemyss granted Kincaldrum to Master Alexander Guthrie and his wife Marjory. The original charter has not yet been relocated and independently verified, so this remains useful but secondary evidence.
Master Alexander Is Securely “of Kincaldrum”
A Brechin inquest identifies Master Alexander de Guthre de Kyncaldrum. This is the earliest securely verified evidence presently used for the numbered Kincaldrum succession on this profile.
David Emerges as the Next Kincaldrum Laird
Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum appears in Arbroath evidence, together with his brother James. David would later become one of the most prominent royal servants of James III’s reign.
Kincaldrum and Guthrie Come Together
Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum received the lands of Guthrie. From this point, the same family held interests in both landed identities.
Sir Alexander Succeeds Sir David
Sir Alexander Guthrie, 3rd of Kincaldrum and 2nd of Guthrie, succeeded his father and inherited the combined family interests.
The Two Successions Separate
Sir Alexander settled the Barony of Kincaldrum upon his son Alexander, later 4th of Kincaldrum, while his elder son David remained apparent heir to Guthrie. This is the legal turning point that creates a distinct Kincaldrum succession.
Flodden Changes the Guthrie Succession
Sir Alexander and his eldest son David were both killed at Flodden. David never succeeded as proprietor of Guthrie; that line continued through his son Andrew. Kincaldrum remained with Alexander 4th under the settlement already made in 1508.
Alexander 4th & Isobel / Elizabeth Rait
Alexander and his wife received conjunct infeftment in Little Lour, Muirton, half of Carret and half of Little Methie. Contemporary sources call his wife both Elizabeth Rait and Isobelle Raite.
Thomas Guthrie Identified as Alexander 4th’s Full Brother
Alexander conveyed Carret to Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german. The relationship adds Thomas to the preceding generation as another son of Sir Alexander 3rd and establishes that Thomas and Alexander 4th shared both parents. Under the present reconstruction, Alexander and Thomas are therefore placed together in Sir Alexander’s earlier family, although this 1539 record does not itself name their mother.
David 5th Reportedly Served Heir
The earlier Kincaldrum chronology records David Guthrie as served heir to his father Alexander 4th. The exact archival citation underlying this entry still needs to be relocated.
David 5th Is Firmly in Possession
Exchequer evidence records sasine to David in substantial Kincaldrum lands, independently establishing the continuation of the succession.
Alexander 6th Is Documented as Eldest Son & Apparent Heir
A marriage contract preserved in a published transcription in The Douglas Book identifies Alexander Guthrie as the eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and provides for his marriage to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie. This is presently the earliest direct evidence for this father-son succession.
David 5th Dies
National Records of Scotland evidence explicitly places the death of David Guthrie, 5th of Kincaldrum, in this year.
Alexander 6th & the Next Marriage Settlement
Alexander 6th settled Kincaldrum upon his son David in connection with David’s marriage to Katherine Blair. The same evidence names Helene Douglas as Alexander’s spouse.
This creates an unresolved documentary conflict. Alexander’s 1567 marriage contract directly provides for his marriage to Alice Douglas, while later evidence identifies Alise Douglas as David’s mother. The relationship between Alice / Alise and the Helene Douglas named in 1594 has not yet been resolved.
Alexander 8th & Mariote Grahame
David 7th and Katherine Blair arranged the marriage of their eldest son Alexander to Mariote Grahame of Claverhouse and settled extensive Kincaldrum lands upon the couple.
The same settlement provides important evidence for the preceding generation: it expressly identifies Alise Douglas as David 7th’s mother and reserves to her a liferent in the dominical lands of Lour.
David 7th Begins Acquiring Interests in Guthrie
David of Kincaldrum received sasine in specified lands belonging to the Barony of Guthrie under charters from William Guthrie of that Ilk and Isabella Fenton.
Rev. Patrick Guthrie Reported as David 7th’s Full Brother
A surviving account of property contracts involving the Guthrie estate describes Rev. Patrick Guthrie as the brother-german of David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum. The underlying contracts have not yet been relocated and examined, so the relationship should presently remain identified as reported evidence.
If the wording of those contracts is confirmed, Patrick and David were full brothers and therefore shared both parents. Because Alise Douglas is independently documented as David’s mother, confirmation would also establish Alise as Patrick’s mother.
The Principal Guthrie Estate Passes to the Kincaldrum Branch
William Guthrie of that Ilk sold the principal Guthrie estate irredeemably to David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum . David consequently became the next numbered holder of Guthrie, not by inheritance but by purchase. He had already held interests in specified Guthrie lands before this principal-estate transaction.
The Crown Confirms the Guthrie Sale
David was now both 7th of Kincaldrum and 8th of Guthrie. The convergence would prove brief.
Alexander 8th Sells Kincaldrum
Alexander Guthrie, 8th of Kincaldrum personally sold the barony to Sir John Blair of Balgillo. The charter reserved a liferent in half of Carret to Alexander’s father David. The principal Guthrie proprietorship of Kincaldrum therefore ended with this conveyance, although the reserved liferent meant that a limited family interest in Carret continued.
Guthrie Also Leaves David’s Hands
A surviving account of the Guthrie property succession states that David and his son Alexander made an absolute disposition of the Barony of Guthrie to Rev. Patrick Guthrie, following earlier wadset arrangements. The underlying instruments for this sequence remain an important source-verification target.
Alexander Remains Publicly Active
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum was appointed among the Justices of the Peace for Forfar, proving that the traditional claim that he died in 1633 is incorrect.
The Sale of Kincaldrum Is Confirmed
The Crown confirmed Alexander’s 29 November 1633 conveyance to Sir John Blair. The principal Guthrie proprietorship of Kincaldrum had ended with the 1633 transaction; this 1635 record supplied the subsequent royal confirmation of that conveyance.
Alexander’s Latest Identified Record
A National Library of Scotland decreet names Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrome as a party in litigation. His exact death date remains unknown.
The End of the Guthrie Kincaldrum Succession
With Alexander 8th’s sale of the estate, there is no 9th of Kincaldrum in the numbering used on this profile. The number follows the Guthrie proprietors of the landed estate, not every descendant of the family.
The family itself did not disappear. David 7th’s children and collateral relatives continued elsewhere, while the family’s brief reconnection with the lands of Guthrie led into a different property succession.
Kincaldrum’s story as a Guthrie landed identity, however, ends with Alexander’s 1633 sale to Sir John Blair of Balgillo.
Questions Still Open
The surviving records now establish much more of the Kincaldrum succession than the traditional pedigree alone. Contemporary evidence directly establishes Thomas Guthrie as the full brother of Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum, while surviving accounts of later property contracts point to another potentially important relationship between Rev. Patrick Guthrie and David, 7th of Kincaldrum. Several questions nevertheless remain unresolved or require the underlying instruments to be relocated.
What Exactly Happened at Kincaldrum in 1446 and 1457?
A later account reports a 1446 grant of Kincaldrum by Sir Thomas Wemyss to Master Alexander Guthrie and Marjory his wife. Another reported charter in 1457 involves George, Earl of Rothes, Alexander and Marjory.
Master Alexander is securely documented as of Kincaldrum by 1450, but the original instruments behind the reported 1446 and 1457 grants have not yet been relocated and compared.
Who Was Sir Alexander’s Earlier Wife?
Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum, was a documented son of Sir Alexander Guthrie, 3rd of Kincaldrum. In 1539, Thomas Guthrie was explicitly called Alexander 4th’s brother-german, establishing that the two men shared both parents.
The chronology reconstructed for this profile places Alexander and Thomas together in Sir Alexander’s earlier family, before his later marriage to Margaret Lyon. Their mother, however, has not been identified by name in the records presently located.
A marriage contract, charter, sasine, testament or other contemporary family record naming this earlier wife would resolve one of the most important remaining questions in the early Kincaldrum pedigree.
Where Is David 5th’s 1553 Service as Heir?
The earlier Kincaldrum research chronology states that David Guthrie was served heir to his father on 20 July 1553.
The entry is consistent with later Exchequer evidence, but the exact retour or other archival instrument from which the date was taken has not yet been relocated. Finding it would strengthen both David’s succession and the death range for Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum.
Can David 5th’s Wife Be Directly Identified as Janet Kerr?
The traditional Kincaldrum pedigree names Janet Kerr as David’s wife. Other family evidence supports a Kerr maternal connection for their son Alexander, 6th of Kincaldrum.
A contemporary instrument directly identifying David’s spouse as Janet Kerr has not yet been located in the records reviewed for this revision.
How Are Alice / Alise Douglas and Helene Douglas Related?
The 28 December 1567 marriage contract directly provides for the marriage of Alexander Guthrie, eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie.
Later evidence securely identifies Alise Douglas as the mother of David, 7th of Kincaldrum, and the 1615 settlement reserves a liferent to her.
Yet the 1594 Kincaldrum settlement explicitly calls Helene Douglas the spouse of Alexander 6th. A simple assumption of successive marriages does not by itself reconcile these records. The explanation may involve another marital or legal circumstance, an error in one of the records or its transmission, or evidence that has not yet been recovered.
Where Are the 1624 Guthrie Property Contracts?
Surviving accounts of transactions involving the Guthrie estate report that Rev. Patrick Guthrie was described as the brother-german of David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum.
The underlying 1624 contracts have not yet been relocated and examined. Confirming their precise wording would establish whether Patrick and David were indeed full brothers.
Because Alise Douglas is independently documented as David’s mother, confirmation of the brother-german relationship would also establish Alise as Patrick’s mother and place him securely among the children of Alexander 6th and Alise Douglas.
These records may also clarify the early wadset arrangements by which interests in the Guthrie estate began passing from David of Kincaldrum to Rev. Patrick before the later absolute disposition.
Does the Original 1567 Douglas Marriage Contract Survive?
The essential genealogical evidence is no longer dependent upon the older Kincaldrum chronology. Sir William Fraser published a detailed transcription of the 28 December 1567 marriage contract in The Douglas Book, Volume III, Charter 211.
The transcription directly identifies Alexander as the eldest son and apparent heir of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and provides for his marriage to Alice Douglas.
Locating the original instrument or its present archival reference would nevertheless allow the transcription, endorsements and any associated papers to be examined directly. This is now a source-verification goal rather than an unresolved link in the pedigree.
Did Alexander 8th and Mariote Grahame Have Children?
Their 1615 marriage settlement provided for lawful male heirs, but no child of the couple has yet been identified in the contemporary evidence reviewed.
The older statement that Alexander died “without issue” should therefore remain unproven unless a retour, testament, succession clause or other contemporary record specifically establishes failure of issue.
When Did David 7th and Alexander 8th Die?
Neither man’s exact death date has presently been established. Records involving David 7th continue into 1635.
Alexander 8th was certainly alive after the 1633 sale of Kincaldrum: he was appointed a Justice of the Peace in 1634 and appears in litigation dated 8 December 1635.
The old suggestion that Alexander died in or before 1633 should therefore be discarded entirely.
Research principle: An unanswered question is preferable to a convenient but unsupported pedigree. As additional charters, retours, sasines, testaments and family papers are identified, these questions can be revised without disturbing relationships already securely established by contemporary evidence.
Searching for Kincaldrum
Historical place-names were not spelled consistently. Researchers looking only for the modern form Kincaldrum can easily miss relevant charters, sasines, court proceedings and catalogue entries recorded under another spelling.
Forms encountered in records and historical material used during this research include:
Why Are There So Many Spellings?
Before standardized spelling, clerks generally wrote names according to local usage, pronunciation, Latinized forms or their own spelling habits. A single person or estate can therefore appear under several forms even within records created during the same lifetime.
Later printed editions introduce another layer of variation. Editors sometimes expanded abbreviations, normalized letters, or transcribed difficult handwriting differently. Modern archive catalogues may preserve either the original form or an editor’s later rendering.
These differences should not automatically be interpreted as evidence for different places. Context — especially associated lands, neighboring properties, family names and the barony or parish involved — is often more useful than exact spelling.
Better Ways to Search the Records
Where a catalogue supports wildcard searching, useful searches might include Kincaldr*, Kyncaldr*, Kincald*, Kincold*. Otherwise, try several shortened spelling variants individually, or search combinations of Guthrie + Carret, Guthrie + Lour, Guthrie + Methie, Guthrie + Nevay, or Guthrie + Kincreich.
Searching the associated lands can be especially productive. A record may concern one portion of the Kincaldrum estate without using the word Kincaldrum prominently — or at all — in the catalogue description.
For this profile: Kincaldrum is used as the standardized modern form in the narrative for readability. Historical spellings are retained when they are significant to a quotation, source description or search strategy.
Sources & Further Research
This profile has been reconstructed primarily from charters, sasines, Exchequer accounts, Privy Council proceedings, ecclesiastical records and surviving family papers . These records frequently provide relationships and property details that do not appear in traditional Guthrie pedigrees.
Not every source carries the same evidentiary weight. Where an original or published primary record has been located, the profile says so. Where an older research chronology reports a document that has not yet been relocated, that distinction is preserved rather than silently treating the information as independently verified.
Register of the Great Seal of Scotland
RMS Volume 2 — David and the Early Kincaldrum Succession
Charter 868 — 25 March 1465/66
Styles Master David de Guthre of Kincaldrum
and documents the grant associated with his acquisition of
Guthrie. The printed heading and editor’s dating note create
the 1465/66 dating issue discussed in Generation 2.
Charter 3259 — August 1508
The defining charter for the separation of the two landed
successions. Sir Alexander Guthrie settles Kincaldrum upon
his son Alexander; Margaret Lyon is named
as Sir Alexander’s spouse and George Guthrie
as another son. The charter does not itself identify
Margaret as George’s mother.
RMS Volume 3 — Alexander 4th, the Raits and Thomas Guthrie
Charter 250 — 18 January 1523/24
Confirms conjunct infeftment to
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Elizabeth
Rait his spouse in Little Lour, Muirton, half of
Carret and half of Little Methie.
Charter 2085 — confirmed 10 February 1539/40
Preserves Alexander 4th’s transaction of
29 January 1539 conveying Carret to
Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german.
This relationship establishes Thomas as another son of
Sir Alexander Guthrie, 3rd of Kincaldrum, and establishes
that Thomas and Alexander 4th shared both parents.
RMS Volume 6 — Alexander 6th and the 1594 Settlement
Charter 1935 — confirmed 30 June 1607
Preserves the 1594 settlement associated with
David Guthrie and Katherine Blair.
It identifies David as the legitimate son and apparent heir
of Alexander 6th and names
Helene Douglas as Alexander’s spouse.
The same material identifies Patrick Guthrie as the brother-german of Alexander 6th, adding another son to the family of David, 5th of Kincaldrum.
RMS Volume 8 — The Reunion with Guthrie
Charter 1616 — confirmed 24 July 1630
Preserves William Guthrie of that Ilk’s
10 September 1629 irredeemable sale of
the principal Guthrie estate to David Guthrie of
Kincaldrum. The charter also contributes evidence for
David’s sons Alexander, William and Master
Archibald Guthrie.
Charter 1956 — 25 March 1632
Identifies David Guthrie of that Ilk and
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum, his eldest
legitimate son and apparent heir.
Charter 2216 — confirmed 31 July 1633
Confirms the 1615 marriage settlement of
Alexander Guthrie and Mariote Grahame.
This record also explicitly identifies
Alise Douglas as the mother of David
Guthrie.
RMS Volume 9 — The Sale of Kincaldrum
Charter 323 — confirmed 27 June 1635
Preserves Alexander Guthrie’s charter of
29 November 1633 selling the Barony of
Kincaldrum to Sir John Blair of Balgillo.
The charter expressly identifies Alexander as the seller and reserves a liferent in half of Carret to David Guthrie, his father. This record is the principal evidence correcting the older claim that Alexander had died before the estate was sold.
The Douglas Book — 1567 Marriage Contract
Volume III, Charter 211 — Alexander Guthrie & Alice Douglas
Sir William Fraser’s The Douglas Book preserves a published transcription of the marriage contract dated 28 December 1567, drawn from the Douglas Charter-chest.
The contract identifies David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Alexander Guthrie, his eldest son and apparent heir, and provides for Alexander’s marriage to Alice Douglas, daughter of Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie.
This is now the earliest direct documentary evidence used on this profile for the father-son succession from David 5th to Alexander 6th. The original instrument or its present archival reference remains a worthwhile source-verification target, but the marriage contract itself is no longer known only through the older Kincaldrum chronology.
Exchequer Rolls of Scotland
David 5th — Sasine and Possession
Volume XIX, pp. 413–414 — 2 October 1557
Records relief arising from sasine to
David Guthrie in Kincaldrum lands,
including portions of the mains, Kirkton of Nevay,
Easter Methie, Kincreich, Wester Methie and Little Lour.
David 5th — Further Kincaldrum Sasine
Volume XXII, p. 440 — 1590
Headed Sasina Davidi Guthrie de Kincaldrum and
recording sasine in three quarters of Little Lour,
Muirton, half of Carret and half of Little Methie.
Alexander 6th — The 1594 and 1598 Succession
Volume XXII, pp. 502–503 — 1594
Records Crown accounting and relief connected with sasine
to Alexander Guthrie following periods of non-entry.
Volume XXIII, pp. 404–405 — 1598
Further proceedings concerning Alexander’s entry into the
Kincaldrum lands demonstrate that the succession was not
completed in one simple transaction.
Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland
Alexander 4th and Isobelle Raite — 1524
Volume 5, p. 182
Records the royal composition paid in connection with the
conjunct infeftment of
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Isobelle
Raite his spouse.
This is the corresponding record to RMS III:250, which calls Alexander’s wife Elizabeth Rait. The two forms are therefore preserved on this profile rather than silently selecting one.
Lords of Council & Privy Council Records
Alexander 4th in Ward — 15 January 1538
A royal command concerning Alexander Guthrie of Kyncaldrum required security of 5,000 merks while he remained in ward in Edinburgh Castle.
David 5th and Alexander 6th
Privy Council proceedings contribute several important relationship and career references, including the 1591 identification of Alexander as David’s son and apparent heir. This is valuable later corroboration of the relationship already stated in the 1567 Douglas marriage contract.
Alexander 8th — Justice of the Peace, 1634
A commission dated 18 September 1634 includes Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum among the Justices of the Peace for Forfar. This is one of the records demonstrating that he survived the 1633 sale of Kincaldrum.
National Records of Scotland
GD137/799 — Death of David 5th
The catalogue description concerns non-entry profits following the death of the late David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and identifies his death as occurring in 1593.
24 April 1621 — David 7th in Guthrie Lands
An Instrument of Sasine records David Guthrie of Kincaldrum in lands including Heughhead of Guthrie, Mylnetoun, Eastertoun and Kirktoun of Guthrie under charters granted by William Guthrie of that Ilk and Isabella Fenton.
This evidence demonstrates that David’s acquisition of interests in Guthrie began before the principal irredeemable sale of 1629.
Searchable NRS Guthrie Index
The chronological Guthrie index brings together National Records of Scotland references across multiple collections and spelling variants.
National Library of Scotland — Kincaldrum Family Papers
Ch.15040–15047
This group of surviving documents preserves legal and property proceedings involving the Kincaldrum family from the early seventeenth century into the 1630s.
Particularly useful are the 1635 proceedings involving David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Ch.15047, dated 8 December 1635, a decreet in the case of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrome against Isobel Falconer and John Ogilvy.
The latter is presently the latest dated record identified for Alexander, 8th of Kincaldrum.
Early Ecclesiastical & Monastic Records
Brechin — 21 July 1450
A Brechin inquest includes Master Alexander de Guthre de Kyncaldrum. This is the earliest securely verified reference presently used to anchor the numbered Kincaldrum succession.
Arbroath — David of Kincaldrum and His Brother James
Arbroath Abbey material supplies important early evidence for Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, his public career and his documented brother James Guthrie.
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ
Rev. Patrick Guthrie
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ identifies Rev. Patrick Guthrie, later Regent and Sub-Principal of King’s College and minister of Logie-Buchan, as a son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum.
A surviving account of later property evidence reports Patrick as the brother-german of David, 7th of Kincaldrum. The underlying 1624 contracts have not yet been relocated and examined. If their reported wording is confirmed, the relationship, combined with the 1615 evidence naming Alise Douglas as David’s mother, would also establish Alise as Patrick’s mother.
Reported / Underlying Records Still to Be Relocated
1446 — Reported Wemyss Grant
An older account reports a grant of Kincaldrum by Sir Thomas Wemyss to Master Alexander Guthrie and Marjory his wife.
Because the original instrument has not yet been located and independently reviewed, it remains reported evidence rather than a verified charter.
1457 — Reported Rothes Charter
A second early report associates George, Earl of Rothes, Alexander Guthrie and Marjory with Kincaldrum. Its exact relationship to the reported 1446 grant remains unresolved.
20 July 1553 — David 5th’s Service as Heir
The earlier Kincaldrum research chronology records David as served heir to his father on this date. The event is plausible and consistent with later evidence, but the exact retour or other archival reference has not yet been relocated.
31 May 1598 — Reported Kerr Maternal Inheritance
The earlier Kincaldrum chronology reports that Alexander Guthrie, 6th of Kincaldrum, obtained sasine in lands associated with Sir John Kerr, described as his maternal grandfather, and was served heir to his mother.
The underlying instrument has not yet been relocated. Confirming its exact wording would strengthen the evidence for the Kerr maternity of Alexander and his brother Patrick in the preceding generation.
1624 — Reported Guthrie Property Contracts
Surviving accounts of transactions involving the Guthrie estate report that Rev. Patrick Guthrie was described as the brother-german of David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum.
The underlying contracts have not yet been relocated and examined. Their exact wording is important both for the Patrick-David relationship and for reconstructing the sequence of wadsets involving the Guthrie estate.
12 December 1633 — Reported Absolute Disposition of Guthrie
A surviving account of the property succession states that David Guthrie and his son Alexander made an absolute disposition of the Barony of Guthrie to Rev. Patrick Guthrie, following earlier wadset arrangements.
The underlying instrument has not yet been independently examined for this revision. It remains an important target for reconstructing the precise legal sequence by which the Guthrie estate passed into Patrick’s hands.
Guthrie Genealogy Research Collections
Special Collections
The Guthrie Genealogy Special Collections pages bring together searchable entries from Scottish charter, ecclesiastical, legal and archival collections used in rebuilding this profile.
Related Family Profiles
The Kincaldrum branch overlaps substantially with the history of the principal Guthrie estate, particularly during the generations of Sir David, Sir Alexander and David 7th.
Priorities for Further Research
- Relocate and examine the reported 1446 and 1457 Kincaldrum charters.
- Identify Sir Alexander Guthrie’s earlier wife, reconstructed as the mother of Alexander 4th and Thomas Guthrie.
- Relocate the exact source for David 5th’s reported service as heir on 20 July 1553.
- Find a contemporary document directly naming David 5th’s wife as Janet Kerr.
- Identify the present archival location of the original 1567 Alice Douglas marriage contract transcribed in The Douglas Book, and examine any endorsements or associated papers that may help explain the later reference to Helene Douglas.
- Relocate the underlying record for the reported 31 May 1598 Kerr maternal inheritance.
- Relocate and examine the 1624 Guthrie property contracts reporting Rev. Patrick Guthrie as David 7th’s brother-german, together with the underlying evidence for the 12 December 1633 disposition of Guthrie.
- Search for children or succession evidence for Alexander 8th and Mariote Grahame.
- Establish later-life and death evidence for David 7th and Alexander 8th.
This profile is a working documentary reconstruction. The numbering provides a practical framework for following a succession crowded with repeated names, but it should not be mistaken for proof that every relationship or life event has been recovered.
Newly identified records have already changed the family picture — most notably by establishing Thomas Guthrie as the full brother of Alexander 4th, locating the published transcription of the 1567 Alice Douglas marriage contract, clarifying the two Patrick Guthries, and correcting the story of the 1633 sale of Kincaldrum. Further records may refine it again.