Guthrie Family Group 6 – Branch J
JAMES GUTHRIE 1775CT-1850NY and EDITHA MUNSON
of Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA

CONTENTS:
Origin Theories
The Family of James Guthrie & Editha Munson
Historical Highlights
The Guthrie DNA Project

ORIGIN THEORIES for GFG6 – BRANCH J

Trying to piece together the generation prior to James Guthrie has proven to be a challenge for its descendants. A lack of records and a few that make the interrelationships confusing do not make for easy research.

This Guthrie family settled in New England. It is unknown precisely when they arrived except that it was likely during the parents’ generation. There is a Connecticut connection because Census records show James and some of his siblings were born in that state. However, the Y-DNA shows James’ line does not belong to the Guthrie family of Litchfield, CT, designated as GFG2A-Branch F.

During their adulthood, James and his siblings were living in New York State. James in Hebron, Washington County. Mary, Martha, and John in Leicester, Livingston County. William in Caledonia, Livingston. Jane somewhere in NY. David in York, Livingston County.

There is a trio of men believed to be brothers: George Guthrie 1750-1810 (Elizabeth Cleghorn), Samuel Guthrie 1755-Unk (Wife Unk), John Guthrie 17??-1782 (Phebe MNU).

John Guthrie reportedly died during the American Revolution 1 year after the birth of the last of James Guthrie’s siblings. Descendants believe that John & Phebe are the parents to James and his siblings. The widow, Phebe Guthry, is found in the 1800 census of Argyle, Washington, NY: 1F 45+, 1F 26-44.

There is also speculation by a family researcher as to whether these Guthrie brothers, who were apparently born in Ireland, might be part of the 1764 Cahans Exodus from County Monaghan. “A group of Seceder Presbyterian families from Ballybay, county Monaghan, Ireland, sailed on the “John,” from Newry, county Down, Ireland, on May 10, 1764, and arrived in New York on July 28, 1764. The emigrants were part of the congregation known as the Ballybay New Erection. They sailed under the leadership of their pastor, Reverend Doctor Thomas Clark. By 1767, the majority of the emigrants had settled on farmland acquired for them by Doctor Clark in New Perth (after 1788, Salem), New York. Others settled in Abbeville, South Carolina. In 1779, Dr. Clark visited the members of his Ballybay congregation who had settled in Abbeville. In 1780, he organized them into the congregation of Cedar Springs and Long Cane in South Carolinas.”

One of George Guthrie’s property purchases in Hebron, Washington, NY was on 24 Jul 1787: Thomas Clark of Long Lane Settlement, Abbeville, SC to George Guthrie of Hebron, Weaver, Parts of Lots#3&4 Town of Hebron.

THE FAMILY of JAMES GUTHRIE & EDITHA MUNSON

JAMES GUTHRIE
Born: About 1775
Location: Connecticut
Married: Editha Munson about 1799 in Hebron, Washington, NY
Occupation: Blacksmith
Died: 10 May 1850
Location: York, Livingston, New York, USA
Buried: Old Scotch Cemetery, York, Livingston, New York, USA

EDITHA MUNSON
Born: About 1780
Location: Westfield, Hebron, Washington, New York, USA
Sons: John Guthrie (1800), William Guthrie (1814), Nathaniel Guthrie (1815), David Guthrie (1818)
Daughters: Editha Guthrie (1807), Phoebe Guthrie (1812)
Died: 20 March 1835
Location: Westfield, Hebron, Washington, New York, USA
Buried: Old Scotch Cemetery, York, Livingston, New York, USA

CHILDREN:

JOHN GUTHRIE
1800NY-1835NY

John Guthrie was apparently a soldier in the War of 1812. His uniform and sword came into the possession of relatives. He died by 20 Oct 1835 in Batavia, Genessee, New York when his estate was probated. The documents mention the administrators handling both the estates of John Guthrie and that of his uncle William Guthrie of York, Livingston, NY who died in 1833. No known spouse or children.

EDITHA GUTHRIE
1807NY-1890NY

Editha Guthrie was born about 1807 in New York state. She and her sister Phoebe remained unmarried. They purchased property together and lived in York and later Leicester County. During the 1860 census the sisters were living with their 80 year old uncle John Guthrie and his spinster sister Martha in Leicester. Editha lived to be 83 years old. She died on 20 Jan 1890. The General Index to Surrogate’s Records indicates Editha Guthrie’s executor filed a petition on 20 Oct 1890 to have her will proved. The process was finalized 17 Nov 1890.

PHOEBE GUTHRIE
1812NY-1892NY

Phoebe Guthrie was born about 1812 in New York. She and her sister Editha remained unmarried and appear to have been each other’s companions during their lifetimes. They purchased property together, and were living with their 80 year old bachelor uncle John Guthrie and spinster aunt Martha during the 1860 census. They were living on their own in 1870 and 1880. Phoebe outlived her sister by 2 years. She died on 12 March 1892 at the age of 80.

WILLIAM GUTHRIE
1814NY-1886WI

William Guthrie was born in Hebron, Washington, NY on 28 Jan 1814. Please note that American Guthrie and Allied Families author, Lawrence R Guthrie, had theorized William to be the son of John & Olive (Wilson) Guthrie who belong to GFG2A-Branch A. Y-DNA testing of a direct Guthrie descendant of William & Sarah (Neill) Guthrie disproves that theory. William’s Y-DNA is a genetic match for GFG6, a genetically unrelated group.

William Guthrie married Sarah Catherine Neill on 4 Dec 1839 in Livingston County, NY at the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church. (History). She was the daughter of Tillyer and Sarah E (Jacobs) Neill born on 29 Jan 1820.
Their eldest son was born in York, Livingston, NY, and the next 8 children in Vernon, Waukesha, Wisconsin where they immigrated after the 1842 sale of their property. William died there 26 Sep 1886 and Sarah on 5 Apr 1895. They are buried at Vernon United Presbyterian Cemetery.

William Guthrie is the only child of James & Editha (Munson) Guthrie known to have children.

Children: 9
Sons: David Tillyer Guthrie (1841), John Cleghorn Guthrie (1845), Daniel Neill Guthrie (1852), Franklin Hamilton Guthrie (1857), William Frederick Guthrie (1859), Charles Ralph Guthrie (1865)
Daughters: Eliza Guthrie (1843), Sarah Guthrie (1848), Emma Philena Guthrie (1854)

Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder Participants: Yes

NATHANIEL GUTHRIE
1815NY-1820NY

Nathaniel Guthrie was born in 1815 in Hebron, Washington, New York. He was only 5 years old at his death on 4 August 1820. He is buried at Old Hebron cemetery.

DAVID GUTHRIE
1818NY-1820NY

David Guthrie was born in 1818 in Hebron, Washington, New York. He was only 2 years old at his death on 26 July 1820. He is buried at Old Hebron cemetery.

HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS

a1755: BIRTH of GEORGE, SAMUEL & JOHN GUTHRIE (IMMIGRANTS)
Ireland

According to one theory the brothers George, Samuel, and John may have been a part of the Cahans Exodus from County Monaghan, Northern Ireland in 1764. If so, the brothers were likely still children and would have been accompanied by at least 1 adult relative, presumably a parent or parents.

According to NY Census records George Guthrie was born before 1774. He was an adult by 1785 when he purchased property, so presumably born by 1763. The year given as his DOB is c1750.

Samuel Guthrie was already 45 or older during the 1800 census, so he was born before 1755.

John’s DOB is unknown, however his widow Phebe Guthrie was listed as 45 or older during the 1800 census, so it is likely that John Guthrie was also born before 1755.

1775: BIRTH of JAMES GUTHRIE (1st of 7 SIBLINGS)
Colony of Connecticut, British America

According to his tombstone, James Guthrie was 75 years old at his death in 1850 estimating his DOB to be 1775. His birth location in Connecticut is inferred based on the birth locations of his closest siblings.

1782: DEATH of JOHN GUTHRIE (IMMIGRANT)
Unknown Location During American Revolution

John Guthrie was reportedly a Revolutionary War soldier. Unknown source. Unknown Regiment. Unknown Rank. No Service or Death Record Found.

1785: GEORGE GUTHRIE (IMMIGRANT) SELLS PROPERTY
New Perth, Washington County, New York, USA on 17 May 1785

Deed G-103: George Guthrie to Andrew Proudfitt, both of New Perth, a small tract in New Perth bought in partnership by John Martin and George Gutterie.

1787: GEORGE GUTHRIE (IMMIGRANT) BUYS PROPERTY
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA on 24 July 1787

Thomas Clark of Long Lane Settlement, Abbeville, SC to George Guthrie of Hebron, Weaver, Parts of Lots#3&4 Town of Hebron.

1790: US CENSUS of NEW YORK
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA

George Guthrie Household:
1 Male 16 and over
1 Male Under 16
2 Females
Total Household Members: 4

This census indicated the possibility that George and Elizabeth were parents. I have not found this couple listed in the 1800 census even though George was alive until about April 1810. That census might show whether there were other children in the household. The current consensus is that after the death of his brother John Guthrie in 1842, some of his orphaned nieces and nephews may have lived with George and Elizabeth.

Samuel Guthrie Household:
1M 16 and over
1M under 16
3 Females
Total Household Members: 5

1795: GEORGE GUTHRIE (IMMIGRANT) SELLS PROPERTY
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA on 2 July 1795

A-352: George Guthrie of Hebron, yeoman, to Jonathan Molby (Maltby) of Salem, part of Lot#3&4 in town of Hebron.

1800: GEORGE GUTHRIE (IMMIGRANT) BUYS PROPERTY
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA on 19 May 1800

D-392: Thomas Clark to George Guthrie

1800: US CENSUS of NEW YORK
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA

There are 438 households listed in Hebron in 1800. I do not find George Guthrie listed as a Head of Household.

Samuel Guthrie Sr Household:
1 Male 45 and over [Samuel Guthrie]
1 Male & 1 Female 26-44 [Identities Unknown]
1 Male & 1 Female under 10 [Identities Unknown]
Total Household Members: 5

Samuel Guthrie Jr Household:
1 Male & 1 Female 16-25 [Samuel Guthrie and wife Sarah Lester]
Total Household Members: 2

James Guthrie Household:
1 Male & 1 Female 16-25 [James Guthrie and wife Editha Munson]
1 Male under 10 [son John Guthrie]
Total Household Members: 3

1800: US CENSUS of NEW YORK
Argyle, Washington County, New York, USA

Phebe Guthry Household:
1 Female 45 and over
1 Female 26-44

1803: SAMUEL SELLS PROPERTY TO GEORGE (IMMIGRANT)
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA on 20 Jun 1803

F-412: Samuel & Sarah Guthrie to George Guthrie

Based on the signatures and identities listed in this document, it appears that the wife of Samuel Guthrie Sr is named Sarah. The wife of his son, Samuel Guthrie Jr is also Sarah, so it initially appeared that it was he who was selling the property to George Guthrie. However, I believe that the document refers to Samuel Guthrie Sr instead.

1810: US CENSUS of NEW YORK
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA

James Guthrie Household:
1 Male & 1 Female 26-44 [James Guthrie and wife Editha Munson]
2 Males & 3 Females under 10 [John, William, Editha, Phoebe, Unknown Female
1 Other Free Person
Total Household Members: 8

1810: DEATH of GEORGE GUTHRIE (IMMIGRANT)
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA, presumably

George Guthrie died prior to April 1810 when a letter of administration was sent to his brother, Samuel Guthrie, of Hebron, Washington, NY. Their relationship is handwritten into the record.

No further trace has been found of George Guthrie’s wife Elizabeth.

1812: JAMES GUTHRIE (1st of 7) SELLS PROPERTY
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA on 30 May 1812

Deed Book L Pages 346-347 James Guthrie of Hebron and Eathy his wife to Wm K Adams for $100

1820: US CENSUS of NEW YORK
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA

James Guthrie Household:
1 Male 45 and older [James Guthrie (1st of 7)]
2 Males & 2 Females 26-44 [Editha, Unknown Males and Female]
2 Males 16-25 (one of them 16-18) [John, Unknown Male]
2 Females 10-15 [Unknown Females]
3 Males & 2 Females Under 10 [William, Nathaniel, David, Editha, Phoebe]

This appears to be a combined household. Possibly James and some siblings, along with his own family.

1820: DEATH of SON – DAVID GUTHRIE
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA on 26 July 1820

Not long after the census was taken 2 year old David Guthrie died of unknown causes. A communicable childhood illness seems likely as his brother Nathaniel died only 9 days later.

1820: DEATH of SON – NATHANIEL GUTHRIE
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA on 4 Aug 1820

Only 9 days after his younger brother’s death, Nathaniel Guthrie also passed away.

1830: CENSUS of NEW YORK
Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA

James Guthrie Household:
1 Male 50-59 [James Guthrie]
1 Female 40-49 [Editha (Munson) Guthrie]
1 Female 15-19 [Phoebe Guthrie]

1835: DEATH of EDITHA (MUNSON) GUTHRIE
Westfield, Hebron, Washington County, New York, USA on 20 March 1835

After the death of his mother, William Guthrie and his wife Sarah wanted to move further west. Widower James Guthrie, and his daughters Editha and Phoebe moved to York, Livingston County, New York.

1835: DEATH of SON – JOHN GUTHRIE
York, Livingston County, New York, USA

James & Editha’s son John Guthrie died about 20 October 1835 in Batavia, Genessee, New York. His estate was probated on that date. John is buried at the Old Scotch Cemetery in York.

1839: MARRIAGE of SON – WILLIAM GUTHRIE
Livingston County, New York, USA on 4 Dec 1839.

William Guthrie married Sarah Catherine Neill at the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church on 4 Dec 1839. She was the daughter of Tillyer Neal and wife Sarah Elizabeth Jacobs and was born in Lansing, Tompkins, NY on 29 Jan 1820. The marriage produced 9 children: David Tillyer (1841), Eliza (1843), John Cleghorn (1845), Sarah (1848), Daniel Neill (1852), Emma Philena (1854), Franklin Hamilton (1857), William Frederick (1859), and Charles Ralph (1865).

1840: US CENSUS of NEW YORK
Leicester, Livingston County, New York, USA

John Guthrie Household:
1 Male & 2 Females 60-69 [Siblings James, Mary, Martha]
1 Male 50-59 [John Guthrie]
1 Male 20-29 [Unidentified]
1 Female 15-19 [Unidentified]
1 Female 10-14 [Unidentified]

Before 1850: DEATH of JAMES GUTHRIE
York, Livingston County, New York, USA

James Guthrie presumably died sometime before 1850. He is not listed in the census. The 2 wills recorded in Livingston County around 1850 for men by the same name do not belong to this James Guthrie.

THE GUTHRIE DNA PROJECT

Guthrie Family Group: GFG6
Group Designation: Branch J – (The Guthries of Washington County, NY)

Haplogroup: R-M512 > RM198
Confirmed Haplogroup: R-YP371

YDNA Matches:  2
Kit 251848 +FF
James Guthrie 1775CT-1850NY/Editha Munson > William Guthrie 1814NY-1886WI/Sarah Catherine Neill > John Cleghorn Guthrie/Phoebe Melina Tillson (GP) +more

Kit 959499
James Guthrie 1775CT-1850NY/Editha Munson > William Guthrie 1814NY-1886WI/Sarah Catherine Neill > Charles Ralph Guthrie/Charlotte Ann Kier (GGP) +more

Family Finder / Autosomal DNA: 4
Kit 360177:
James Guthrie/Editha Munson > William Guthrie/Sarah Catherine Neill > Franklin Hamilton Guthrie/Mary Ann McMillan (GGP)

Kit 362951:
James Guthrie/Editha Munson > William Guthrie/Sarah Catherine Neill > William Frederick Guthrie/Imogene Estell Barnard (GGP)

Kit 867457:
James Guthrie/Editha Munson > William Guthrie/Sarah Catherine Neill > John Cleghorn Guthrie/Phoebe Melina Tillson (GGP) +more

Kit N44123
James Guthrie/Editha Munson > William Guthrie/Sarah Catherine Neill > Franklin Hamilton Guthrie/Mary Ann McMillan > John Tillyer Guthrie/Katherine Fisch (GGP) +more

Findings:

Guthrie Family Group 6 includes several branches that are probably distantly related. One of the key factors with YDNA tests is its stability. While genetic changes / mutations / copying errors do occur during conception these differences tend to happen rarely, but they do happen on some genetic markers more frequently than others. The presence of these genetic differences can occur within the same related family line over long periods of time. In some cases, we can see evidence of familial inheritance of genetic mutations.

The overall group has a baseline genetic profile. These are the most common results for the group at any given genetic marker. Any deviation from that profile may be a random and/or recent change that is unique to that individual, or it could potentially be an indication of familial inheritance within the group.

With this branch of GFG6, we now have 2 descendants of William Guthrie & Sarah Catherine Neill participating in YDNA testing, one at the Y67 level and one at Y111. (As of July 2021.)

When compared at the Y67 level to each other, there is 1 genetic difference between them. This is likely a random and recent genetic change that has occurred in any generation after their Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA), William Guthrie. Genetic m parker DYS570 = 20 instead of the group mode result – 19.

When compared to the rest of GFG6, these cousins share several genetic differences:
DYS19 = 17 instead of 16
DYS447 = 24 instead of 25
DYS449 = 31 instead of 30
DYS460 = 11 instead of 12
DYS456 = 17 instead of 18 (About half of the group = 17. This appears to be a ‘fast moving’ maker.)
CDYii = 38 instead of 39 (About half of the group = 38. This is a ‘fast moving’ marker across all groups.)
DYS565 = 12 instead of 13.

The YDNA matches for the group suggest prehistoric/ancient Scandinavian origins. Lineages within GFG6 have ties to Berwickshire, Scotland, to Northumberland, England, to Ireland, and to various lineages in the CT/DE/PA/NY area of Colonial America. The YDNA results suggest that any common ancestor between James Guthrie & Editha Munson’s branch and the rest of GFG6 would be found in the United Kingdom or Ireland.