GFG3
Guthrie Genealogy · Family Group 3
Guthrie Family Group 3
Pennsylvania & Ayrshire · Connected families across the world
View in Guthrie Research Tree →Two branches, one shared paternal heritage. The American families associated with Francis Guthrie Sr. and the Ayrshire family of William Guthrie share a Y-DNA connection. Records and DNA are bringing their histories closer together, while the ancestor who joins them remains to be identified.
Explore the Branches
Choose Branch A for the American reconstruction or Branch B for the Ayrshire family. Each family page brings together its records, descendants, and DNA evidence.
Branch A
Francis Guthrie Sr. & Unidentified Spouse
Colerain Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
Francis Sr. is the starting point for Branch A in Colerain Township. The family reconstruction follows three son lines—Robert, Francis Jr., and John—through Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia and present-day West Virginia, with descendants continuing into Tennessee and beyond. His wife and parents remain unidentified.
Explore Francis Sr.’s family →
Branch B
William Guthrie & Ann Hunter / Jacobina McClure
Harperland & Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland
William Guthrie married Ann Hunter and later Jacobina McClure. His family remained rooted in Ayrshire, while descendants reached Canada and New Zealand. The accepted working ancestry now extends three generations before William; confirmation through additional Y-DNA lines is pending.
Explore William’s family →Open children’s pages
With Ann Hunter
With Jacobina McClure
Follow the American Lines
Robert, Francis Jr., and John are the three lines used to organize Branch A. Their relationships are supported by different combinations of tax, land, probate, migration, and DNA evidence; the family pages explain the strength of each connection.
3A-1
Robert Guthrie & Esther
Pennsylvania · Maryland · Virginia
Robert’s will and his sons’ later land sale document members of his family in Rockbridge County, Virginia. The Pennsylvania tax sequence supports his placement under Francis Sr.; a record directly naming Francis as his father is still sought. Esther’s maiden surname remains unverified.
Explore this family →Open children’s pages
These pages include documented children and proposed placements discussed in the family overview. Robert’s will names grandson John King but does not identify his mother; the Ann/King connection requires separate evidence.
3A-2
Francis Guthrie Jr. & His Proposed Family
Pennsylvania · Virginia · East Tennessee
Francis Jr. is one of the forgotten sons whose records were blended with Francis Sr.’s. The working family reconstruction follows descendants into Virginia and East Tennessee. A suitable paternal-line Y-DNA comparison is still needed.
Explore this family →Open proposed family pages
Susannah is identified as James W. Guthrie’s mother. That record alone does not identify her husband or establish her as the mother of every proposed child. The placements below remain under study, especially William’s connection.
3A-3
John Guthrie & Unidentified Spouse
Pennsylvania · Maryland · Virginia / West Virginia
Tax and residential records connect John with the American family; migration and other records help reconstruct his proposed children. His estate was under administration in Kanawha County by November 1819. His wife remains unidentified.
Explore this family →Open proposed family pages
The evidence differs from child to child. Y-DNA supports paternal kinship among tested descendant lines; the exact parent-child links depend on the documentary trail. Mary “Polly” and James Kitchen are covered in the family overview.
A Connection Through Adoption
Andrew S. Guthrie & Guthrie Family Group 10
The family of James W. Guthrie & Isabella Carmichael
Andrew was adopted into James W. Guthrie and Isabella Carmichael’s family. His descendants belong in that family history, while their paternal Y-DNA is studied under GFG10.
The family connection and the separate genetic classification are both part of his story.
Explore the GFG10 connection →Origins & Connections
The shared paternal ancestor of Branches A and B is likely to be found in Scotland, with Ayrshire a leading area of investigation. The accepted Branch B extension gives that search a clearer starting point; it does not yet identify the person who connects the two branches.
American records · Branch A
The Forgotten Sons
Branch A places Robert alongside the two forgotten sons, Francis Jr. and John, in a working reconstruction of Francis Guthrie Sr.’s family in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
The 1751 tax list records two men named Francis. Restoring Francis Jr. and John as distinct men helps explain a documentary trail that older accounts compressed into an improbably long life for Francis Sr.
Help investigate: a deed, probate record, court entry, or family Bible naming Francis Sr.’s children could strengthen the reconstruction. Y-DNA from Francis Jr.’s proposed paternal descendants would provide another important comparison.
Follow The Forgotten Sons investigation →
Which connections still need evidence?
The records support these family connections with differing levels of confidence. No single document has yet been located naming all three men as Francis Sr.’s sons. His wife, parents, and precise overseas origin remain unknown.
Earlier histories, including American Guthrie and Allied Families, omitted generations and linked Francis Sr. to the “Seven Brothers” tradition. Y-DNA has disproved that collection of immigrants as one set of brothers: it contains both related and unrelated families, with some lines still untested.
Accepted working ancestry · Branch B
Three More Ayrshire Generations
William Guthrie’s ancestry is now accepted in the project through three earlier generations, supported by strong autosomal DNA evidence. Y-DNA confirmation of the additional lines is pending.
This extends the family beyond William and his wives, Ann Hunter and Jacobina McClure, into earlier Ayrshire households.
Help investigate: documented father-to-son descendants of the earlier Guthrie generations can help confirm and refine the paternal connection.
Open the accepted ancestry & evidence notes
- George Guthrie (1660–1712)
and Isobald Hewie (1652–1692) - John Guthrie (1690–1743)
and Janet Howie - George Guthrie (1728–1802)
and Margaret Bowie (1733–1814) - William Guthrie (1763–1844)
and Ann Hunter; later Jacobina McClure
Each generation leads to the next. The pedigree is accepted as working ancestry; the exact dates and the discrepancy in William’s reported 1841 census age still require comparison with the original records.
The additional John Howie and John Bowie tree hints are outside this accepted extension. “Craigie in Ayrshire” identifies a place, not a named earlier ancestor or a proven link to the Guthries of Craigie estate.
Historical pedigree · Earlier Scotland
From Ayrshire to Pitforthie?
Could the Ayrshire family descend from Rev. John Guthrie, minister of Tarbolton, a son of James Guthrie of Pitforthie and Janet Lyon?
A historical pedigree associated with the Guthries of Mount suggests descent from the Tarbolton minister. That remains a separate line of investigation from the accepted George Guthrie–Isobald Hewie ancestry.
Help investigate: follow the Tarbolton minister’s descendants and compare them with the early Ayrshire households. Parish, inheritance, and property records may supply the missing generations.
Explore Kingennie & Pitforthie →
The proposed route & newer findings
The connection between the accepted Ayrshire generations and the Tarbolton minister has not been established. Neither the new ancestry extension nor a shared place-name supplies the missing generations.
The updated Kingennie and Pitforthie profile includes the minister’s son, Major John Guthrie, and a further generation. Their descendants provide a documentary trail to investigate.
The historical Pitforthie family has not been assigned to GFG2A or GFG3. A documented paternal descendant and suitable Y-DNA comparison could help test the proposed connections.
Y-DNA discovery · A surname connection
Where Do Guthrie & Gray Meet?
Big-Y testing connects William Guthrie’s Ayrshire line with a line descending from William Gray. They share the paternal DNA branch identified as R-FTC5164.
The DNA gives us a relationship to investigate. The historical explanation—who their shared ancestor was and how the two surnames entered the family story—still needs to be found.
Help investigate: compare the earliest documented generations of both families, looking for places, households, and records that bring them together.
Explore the DNA findings below ↓
What the DNA can help establish
The shared paternal line does not tell us when, why, or in which direction a surname change occurred. Those details need documentary evidence.
Additional Big-Y comparisons may refine the relationship and its estimated timing. The chart below also shows how this Ayrshire branch connects with the tested American Guthrie lines.
Most Wanted Documents
- Francis Sr.’s household: records naming his wife, children, parents, or place of origin, together with later transfers of his Pennsylvania land.
- The extended Ayrshire family: parish, probate, and land records supporting each accepted generation and resolving conflicting ages or dates.
- The Ayrshire–Pitforthie connection: evidence for the generations between the early Ayrshire households and the Tarbolton minister’s family.
- The Guthrie–Gray relationship: documented lines and records identifying the shared ancestor and the historical surname connection.
A full record image, its date, and the archive or source reference are especially useful. If you have a lead or a family record to compare, share it with Ann.
What the DNA Tells Us
A Shared Paternal Line
Y-DNA supports a shared paternal heritage between tested American Guthrie lines and William Guthrie’s Ayrshire line. Big-Y distinguishes branches within that relationship. The exact common ancestor of Branches A and B remains unidentified.
The comparison also includes a descendant of William Gray. That is a paternal connection to investigate; it does not establish when, why, or in which direction a surname change occurred.
Where More Testing Could Help
A father-to-son descendant of Francis Jr.’s proposed family could help test Branch A’s reconstruction. Descendants of the earlier Ayrshire Guthrie generations could confirm and refine Branch B’s accepted extension.
Autosomal DNA already supports the extended Ayrshire ancestry. It also allows descendants through daughters to contribute, while a Guthrie Y-DNA comparison requires an appropriate unbroken paternal line.
Choosing a DNA test →Explore the Big-Y comparison
- R-BY12113 connects the American and Ayrshire branches shown here.
- R-BY12121 connects the tested American lines. Within it, R-BY64289 brings together the tested James, Alexander, and Robert lines associated with John Guthrie’s proposed family.
- R-FTC5164 connects William Guthrie’s Ayrshire line with the William Gray line.
These labels identify branches on the paternal DNA tree. They are clues to relationships and timing, not the names of the ancestors themselves.
Follow the Research
These articles show how the research developed. Read the earlier theories alongside the current family pages for later findings and corrections.
GFG3 Theories · Part 1
Start with the Scottish and New Zealand connection and the search for William of Harperland’s ancestors.
Explore the Ayrshire research →GFG3 Theories · Part 2
Follow the American investigation through records that help connect families across county and state lines.
Follow the American trail →The Forgotten Sons
See how separating two men named Francis changed the working picture of this American family.
Read the family reconstruction →Kingennie & Pitforthie
Explore the documented historical family and the missing links in later claims of descent.
Read the updated family profile →Research contributions: Sharyn Guthrie—Ayrshire and Branch B; Rachelle Child—John’s American family; Diana Guthrie—Francis Jr.’s family.
Research Credit & Discussions
- Sharyn Guthrie
- Rachelle Child
- Diana Guthrie
I just found the death date for my 3 gtgrandma, Jane E Shelton [Guthrie]. She married Robertson Shelton in Giles Co.VA in 1816. One sister’ married Phillip Ballard before 22 Nov. 1811 the date of birth of their son Robertson Shelton Ballard in Logan Co. VA On 01 Aug. 1819 in Logan Co. Jane and Robertson had their first son Sylvester. It states that Phillip’ mother was a Robertson also. Seeing that these families all moved to Indiana, Henry, Rush and Blackford Co’s we find Robertson Shelton, Gordon Ballard and Robertson Ballard witnessing Wills.Phillips wife was Eleanor Guthrie with children, Cyrus Austin, Mary Jane, Thomas Griffith, Chrales Henry and William Rogers.I can comfortably assume that Robertson Shelton Ballard was named in honor of Phillips brother-in-law. Jane E. Guthrie was born in Maryland the daughter William with her sister Martha ‘Patsy’ marring Martin Moody in 1808. Martha was born in Bedford Co VA in 1886. My quest here is find more about William. Craig Holland
Jane Guthrie & Robertson Shelton are new names for me. There are no current members of the Guthrie DNA Project listing them as ancestors, nor do I show them listed in my extensive Guthrie Research tree. Which basically means now I need to learn more. Random trees show Jane as the daughter of William Guthrie and Mary Warren Musgrove. This couple is credited with several sons and a daughter named Martha Jane, but I show her listed as being married to a Jesse Stansell rather than a Martin Moody. Martha Jane was not born until 1820, and William & Mary’s other children were estimated to be born sometime after 1809. So my main question is whether Jane is attached to the right parents in these trees. Is there documentation proving Jane and Martha’s father was named William? Have you taken an Autosomal DNA test? It might point toward a particular Guthrie Family Group. The family of William Guthrey & Mary Warren Musgrove remains ungrouped as we do not have descendants from that line participating in the project at this time.
I found a book at the Internet Archive site with information on William Guthrie (who is indeed not the man who married Mary Musgrove). There is currently no DNA data associated with this family.
https://archive.org/details/familybiographie00alex/page/86/mode/2up?q=Guthrie
Dear Ann: Thanks for your reply. This past Friday I received a query from a party in Giles Co. Her lore created Guthrie family tree was full of hints and I will forward to her the Robert Guthrie and Esther Giles tree which will make her kin very happy. I have somewhere in my files a mention of William Guthrie being in Frederick Co. Maryland. But I do have a page from 1815 Tax Lists for Giles Co. This lists the family of William Guthrie in 1810 with Jane, Mary, Martha and Eleanor with their respected husbands except Jane who marries in 1816. No I have not taken that DNA test, but I should. Please inform me and eager to hear if anything you find in your recent William Guthrie source.
I don’t see a TN connection for your William Guthrie and children. They appear to have moved to Indiana after his death in Virginia. I don’t have a copy of a 1815 Giles County TN Tax List. The 1812 Tax List has only Robert Guthrie on it. (TNGenWeb). Unfortunately, the Giles County Courthouse burned in 1813 taking its marriage and probate records with it. The county had been formed in 1809 from Maury County, TN, so that could potentially be a place to find clues if they did have ties to Giles County.
I think the discussion is about the William Guthrie family of Logan WV (formerly Giles VA), not TN. As far as I know, this William had no sons and was only in Logan WV for a relatively brief time. I grew up in Giles VA. The query received by Mr. Holland is likely from one of my close relatives, but I don’t know from whom it would have been.