GFG3A
Guthrie Genealogy
Guthrie Family Group 3A
Ayrshire, Scotland · America · Canada · New Zealand
An American family traced through Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Virginia shares a paternal DNA connection with Guthries of Ayrshire, Scotland. Explore the branches, follow the records, and help us discover where their stories meet.
Open the GFG3A Research Tree →Origin Theories
An overlooked American family, a proposed Ayrshire pedigree, a possible link to Pitforthie, and a match under another surname give us several paths to explore. These theories draw on records, earlier accounts, and DNA clues. Your research may help confirm a connection, rule one out, or uncover a different explanation.
American records · Branch A
The Forgotten Sons
Could Robert, Francis Jr., and John Guthrie be sons of Francis Guthrie Sr. of Colerain Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania?
The 1751 tax list names two men called Francis Guthrie. Separating their lives helps explain records that earlier histories folded into one man’s story. Tax, land, and migration records support a reconstructed family whose connections continue through Maryland and Virginia.
Help investigate: look for a will, deed, court record, or family Bible naming Francis Sr.’s children. A father-to-son descendant of Francis Jr.’s proposed family could also provide a valuable Y-DNA comparison.
Follow The Forgotten Sons investigation →
Which connections still need evidence?
No document has yet been found naming Robert, Francis Jr., and John together as Francis Sr.’s sons. The branch pages explain the evidence for each proposed relationship.
Francis Sr.’s parents, wife, and overseas origins remain unidentified. A published local history also assigned Scottish parents to James Guthrie, husband of Elizabeth Casdorph, without supporting sources. That account needs to be tested against the American records.
Records & DNA clues · Branch B
William of Harperland’s Parents
Was William Guthrie, husband of Ann Hunter and later Jacobina McClure, the William born in 1763 to George Guthrie and Margaret Bowie of Craigie, Ayrshire?
Family records, newspaper references, and autosomal comparisons collected by Sharyn Guthrie make this a promising lead. If correct, William would be an uncle of Alexander Guthrie of Mount, whose daughter was Christina, Lady Oranmore.
Help investigate: trace a documented father-to-son descendant of John Guthrie (1761–1827) and Helen Hutchinson, another son of George and Margaret, for a Y-DNA comparison.
Follow the evidence for William’s family →
The age discrepancy & other clues
William’s reported age in the 1841 census suggests a later birth than 1763. Records that identify his parents or connect the Harperland and Sidehead households would help resolve the question.
The newspaper account contains errors in dates and relationships, so its references need checking against original records. The autosomal matches are useful clues to compare with the family history; they do not establish each generation of the proposed paternal line.
Historical pedigree · Earlier Scotland
From Ayrshire to Pitforthie?
Could the Ayrshire family descend from Rev. John Guthrie, minister of Tarbolton, a son of James Guthrie of Pitforthie and Janet Lyon?
The heraldic record for Christina Guthrie of Mount describes her father Alexander as believed to descend paternally from the minister. William of Harperland’s proposed connection to the Mount family makes this an intriguing route into GFG3A’s earlier history.
Help investigate: follow the Tarbolton minister’s descendants and compare them with the early Ayrshire households. Parish, inheritance, and property records may supply the missing generations.
Explore Kingennie & Pitforthie →
The proposed route & newer findings
The Ayrshire research follows George Guthrie, husband of Margaret Bowie, back through John Guthrie and Janet Howie to an earlier George Guthrie and Isabel Hewie. Connecting that family to the Tarbolton minister remains an open question; the earlier generations and their dates need careful checking.
The updated Kingennie and Pitforthie profile identifies the minister’s son, Major John Guthrie, and a further generation. This supplies a family to trace beyond the older account that reported no known children.
Pitforthie has not been assigned to GFG3A or GFG2A. A documented father-to-son descendant and a suitable Y-DNA comparison could help test the proposed connections.
Y-DNA discovery · A surname connection
Where Do Guthrie & Gray Meet?
Big-Y testing connects William Guthrie’s Ayrshire line with a line descending from William Gray. They share the paternal DNA branch identified as R-FTC5164.
The DNA gives us a relationship to investigate. The historical explanation—who their shared ancestor was and how the two surnames entered the family story—still needs to be found.
Help investigate: compare the earliest documented generations of both families, looking for places, households, and records that bring them together.
Explore the DNA findings below ↓
What the DNA can help establish
The shared paternal line does not tell us when, why, or in which direction a surname change occurred. Those details need documentary evidence.
Additional Big-Y comparisons may refine the relationship and its estimated timing. The chart below also shows how this Ayrshire branch connects with the tested American Guthrie lines.
Most Wanted Documents
- Francis Sr.’s household: probate, deeds, court papers, or family records naming his wife, children, or place of origin.
- William of Harperland’s parentage: records linking him directly to George Guthrie and Margaret Bowie, or identifying a different set of parents.
- The Ayrshire–Pitforthie connection: records establishing the generations between the early Ayrshire family and the descendants of Rev. John Guthrie of Tarbolton.
- The Guthrie–Gray relationship: sourced family lines and records connecting the earliest known ancestors of the two tested families.
A full record image, its date, and the archive or source reference are especially useful. If you have a lead or a family record to compare, share it with Ann.
Explore the Branches
Begin with one of the two main branches. The American families are organized below under Robert, Francis Jr., and John.
Branch A
Francis Guthrie Sr. & Unidentified Spouse
Colerain Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
The starting point for the reconstructed American family. Tax and land records provide clues to Francis Sr.’s household and the proposed connections to Robert, Francis Jr., and John. His parents and wife remain unidentified.
Explore Francis Sr.’s family →Branch B
William Guthrie & Ann Hunter / Jacobina McClure
Harperland & Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland
William remained in Scotland; descendants of this family reached New Zealand and Canada. His Ayrshire records provide a Scottish starting point for the group, while his own parentage remains under study.
Explore William’s family →Open children’s pages
With Ann Hunter
With Jacobina McClure
Follow the American Lines
These are the working family connections to Francis Sr. The branch pages explain the records, DNA evidence, and relationships still to be confirmed.
3A-1
Robert Guthrie & Esther Giles
Pennsylvania · Maryland · Virginia
Robert’s family can be followed through census, marriage, land, and probate records. His placement as Francis Sr.’s son is supported by the tax-record sequence, but a document naming that relationship has not been found.
Explore this family →Open children’s pages
The family page also discusses questions about Sarah and Sarah Jane, and Esther’s maiden name.
3A-2
Francis Guthrie Jr. & Susannah
Pennsylvania · Virginia · East Tennessee
Earlier accounts blended Francis Jr.’s history with his presumed father’s. His proposed family is being reconstructed from records. Susannah’s maiden name is unknown, and a Y-DNA representative of this line is still needed.
Explore this family →Open proposed family pages
These placements remain under study. In particular, William’s relationship to Francis Jr. is uncertain.
3A-3
John Guthrie & Unidentified Spouse
Pennsylvania · Maryland · Virginia / West Virginia
John’s trail continues into the Greenbrier and Kanawha records. Related Guthrie families found along that route, together with Y-DNA matches, help reconstruct his proposed household. His wife remains unidentified.
Explore this family →Open proposed family pages
The family overview explains the evidence for these relationships. Mary “Polly” and James Kitchen are covered there.
A Connection Through Adoption
Andrew S. Guthrie & Guthrie Family Group 10
The family of James W. Guthrie & Isabella Carmichael
Andrew was adopted into this family. His descendants belong in its family history, while their paternal DNA is studied under GFG10. That established group label remains in use.
Follow both families to understand how the documented adoption and the DNA results fit together.
Explore the GFG10 connection →What the DNA Tells Us
A Shared Paternal Line
Y-DNA connects tested American Guthrie lines with William Guthrie’s Ayrshire family. Big-Y helps separate their branches and estimate how far back their shared paternal ancestors lived.
The comparison also includes a descendant of William Gray. That is a paternal connection to investigate; it does not establish when, why, or in which direction a surname change occurred.
Where More Testing Could Help
A documented father-to-son descendant of Francis Jr.’s proposed family could help test the American reconstruction. A comparable descendant from another son of George Guthrie and Margaret Bowie could help investigate William’s proposed parents.
More Big-Y comparisons can refine the branches, but records are still needed to identify the people between them.
Choosing a DNA test →Explore the Big-Y comparison
- R-BY12113 connects the American and Ayrshire branches shown here.
- R-BY12121 connects the tested American lines. Within it, R-BY64289 brings together the tested James, Alexander, and Robert lines associated with John Guthrie’s proposed family.
- R-FTC5164 connects William Guthrie’s Ayrshire line with the William Gray line.
These labels identify branches on the paternal DNA tree. They are clues to relationships and timing, not the names of the ancestors themselves.
Follow the Research
These articles show how the research developed. Read the earlier theories alongside the current family pages for later findings and corrections.
GFG3 Theories · Part 1
Start with the Scottish and New Zealand connection and the search for William of Harperland’s ancestors.
Explore the Ayrshire research →GFG3 Theories · Part 2
Follow the American investigation through records that help connect families across county and state lines.
Follow the American trail →The Forgotten Sons
See how separating two men named Francis changed the working picture of this American family.
Read the family reconstruction →Kingennie & Pitforthie
Explore the documented historical family and the missing links in later claims of descent.
Read the updated family profile →Research contributions include work shared by Sharyn Guthrie, Rachelle Child, and Diana Guthrie.
🔍 RESEARCH CREDIT & DISCUSSIONS
Sharyn Guthrie
Rachelle Child
Diana Guthrie
I just found the death date for my 3 gtgrandma, Jane E Shelton [Guthrie]. She married Robertson Shelton in Giles Co.VA in 1816. One sister’ married Phillip Ballard before 22 Nov. 1811 the date of birth of their son Robertson Shelton Ballard in Logan Co. VA On 01 Aug. 1819 in Logan Co. Jane and Robertson had their first son Sylvester. It states that Phillip’ mother was a Robertson also. Seeing that these families all moved to Indiana, Henry, Rush and Blackford Co’s we find Robertson Shelton, Gordon Ballard and Robertson Ballard witnessing Wills.Phillips wife was Eleanor Guthrie with children, Cyrus Austin, Mary Jane, Thomas Griffith, Chrales Henry and William Rogers.I can comfortably assume that Robertson Shelton Ballard was named in honor of Phillips brother-in-law. Jane E. Guthrie was born in Maryland the daughter William with her sister Martha ‘Patsy’ marring Martin Moody in 1808. Martha was born in Bedford Co VA in 1886. My quest here is find more about William. Craig Holland
Jane Guthrie & Robertson Shelton are new names for me. There are no current members of the Guthrie DNA Project listing them as ancestors, nor do I show them listed in my extensive Guthrie Research tree. Which basically means now I need to learn more. Random trees show Jane as the daughter of William Guthrie and Mary Warren Musgrove. This couple is credited with several sons and a daughter named Martha Jane, but I show her listed as being married to a Jesse Stansell rather than a Martin Moody. Martha Jane was not born until 1820, and William & Mary’s other children were estimated to be born sometime after 1809. So my main question is whether Jane is attached to the right parents in these trees. Is there documentation proving Jane and Martha’s father was named William? Have you taken an Autosomal DNA test? It might point toward a particular Guthrie Family Group. The family of William Guthrey & Mary Warren Musgrove remains ungrouped as we do not have descendants from that line participating in the project at this time.
I found a book at the Internet Archive site with information on William Guthrie (who is indeed not the man who married Mary Musgrove). There is currently no DNA data associated with this family.
https://archive.org/details/familybiographie00alex/page/86/mode/2up?q=Guthrie
Dear Ann: Thanks for your reply. This past Friday I received a query from a party in Giles Co. Her lore created Guthrie family tree was full of hints and I will forward to her the Robert Guthrie and Esther Giles tree which will make her kin very happy. I have somewhere in my files a mention of William Guthrie being in Frederick Co. Maryland. But I do have a page from 1815 Tax Lists for Giles Co. This lists the family of William Guthrie in 1810 with Jane, Mary, Martha and Eleanor with their respected husbands except Jane who marries in 1816. No I have not taken that DNA test, but I should. Please inform me and eager to hear if anything you find in your recent William Guthrie source.
I don’t see a TN connection for your William Guthrie and children. They appear to have moved to Indiana after his death in Virginia. I don’t have a copy of a 1815 Giles County TN Tax List. The 1812 Tax List has only Robert Guthrie on it. (TNGenWeb). Unfortunately, the Giles County Courthouse burned in 1813 taking its marriage and probate records with it. The county had been formed in 1809 from Maury County, TN, so that could potentially be a place to find clues if they did have ties to Giles County.
I think the discussion is about the William Guthrie family of Logan WV (formerly Giles VA), not TN. As far as I know, this William had no sons and was only in Logan WV for a relatively brief time. I grew up in Giles VA. The query received by Mr. Holland is likely from one of my close relatives, but I don’t know from whom it would have been.