Guthrie of Lunan
Meet the Guthries of Lunan
The historic lands of Lunan lay on the Angus coast around the Lunan Water and Lunan Bay, east of Montrose and north of Arbroath. Medieval and early-modern records use several forms of the name, including Lownan, Lownane, Innerlownan, Inverlunan, and Inverlowman.
Unlike some of the older Guthrie territorial families, Lunan does not survive as a neat father-to-son pedigree. Its history has to be reconstructed from Abbey tacks, charters, sasines, testaments, services of heirs, deeds, parish registers, and occasional explicit statements of relationship. Those records reveal a recurring Guthrie presence extending from the early fifteenth century into the seventeenth century and beyond.
Much of the earliest evidence comes from Arbroath Abbey. The Abbey’s records show Guthries repeatedly holding Innerlownan under long-term tacks. These were substantial tenancies, but they should not be confused with hereditary ownership of the whole estate.
The records sometimes give us genuine relationships — most notably John Guthrie and his son Hercules in 1526 — but they do not prove that every William, Robert, James, John, or Hercules associated with Lunan belonged to one continuous father-to-son succession.
The earliest presently identified personal Guthrie association with Lunan is no longer 1428. On 14 December 1418, the Abbot and Convent of Arbroath granted William of Guthrie a formal tack of their lands of Innerlownan.
The agreement required an annual grain rent, attendance at the Abbot’s courts, customary service, and restrictions on subletting. The surviving indenture was sealed by both William and the Abbey. It therefore establishes William as an important Abbey tenant at Innerlownan, but not as hereditary proprietor of the entire lands of Lunan.
The Innerlownan records continue with Robert Guthrie in 1496, James Guthrie in 1512, and John Guthrie with his son Hercules in 1526. The recurrence of the surname at the same Abbey holding strongly suggests a multigenerational Guthrie tenancy family, although only John and Hercules are explicitly linked as father and son.
By the sixteenth century, the documentary story also becomes closely connected with Over Dysart. Hercules Guthrie later appears as of Lownane and of Over Dysart, and later Guthries continue to use one or both territorial associations. Lunan and Over Dysart were distinct properties, but their records overlap too closely to study the later family separately.
The Guthries of Lunan may ultimately have belonged to the wider Guthrie kindred, but no surviving charter, sasine, marriage contract, service of heir, or other direct record presently establishes them as a cadet branch of the Guthries of Guthrie. This profile therefore follows the Lunan evidence on its own terms rather than filling the gaps with a traditional pedigree.
Family at a Glance
The Guthries of Lunan cannot yet be arranged into one continuous generation-by-generation pedigree. The surviving records instead preserve a series of documented family fragments alongside a recurring sequence of Guthrie tenants and landholders. The relationships below are shown only where the evidence actually states them.
The Early Innerlownan Tenancy
1418 → Robert
1496 → James
1512 → John
1526 → Hercules
son of John
John Guthrie & Hercules Guthrie
Their relationship is explicitly stated in the 28 March 1526 Arbroath Abbey tack of Innerlownan.
Hercules Guthrie & His Natural Sons
On 3 February 1551, James and William were legitimated by royal letters and expressly described as the natural sons of Hercules Guthrie of Over Dysart.
A separate record later that month identifies Jonet Anderson as Hercules’s spouse, but the legitimation does not name the mother of James or William.
Margaret Guthrie of Lunan
Their marriage is documented by 1527. Margaret became Lady of Kinnaird and was mother of the documented Carnegie family shown later on this page.
Her own parents remain unidentified.
John Guthrie of Lunan & Margaret Keith
John was deceased by April 1626. His testament identifies Margaret Guthrie as his only lawful daughter, while sasine evidence identifies his widow Margaret Keith.
The 1653 Inverlunan Relationship
On 4 November 1653, John Guthrie of Over Dysart was served heir to his uncle John in the town and lands of Inverlunan.
John Guthrie & Jean Guthrie
A bond dated 19 August 1687 explicitly names Jean Guthrie as John’s sister.
Elizabeth Guthrie & John Guthrie
Elizabeth’s 1712 testament identifies her as the daughter of the deceased John Guthrie of Over Dysart. Her inventory was given up by her brother german John Guthrie, factor to the Earl of Southesk.
Two Different Margaret Guthries
Dame Margaret Guthrie of Lunan, Lady of Kinnaird, who died in April 1575, is not the same woman as the later Margaret Guthrie, only lawful daughter of John Guthrie of Lunan and Margaret Keith, documented in 1626. They belong to different generations.
How to Read This Family
The early Innerlownan names form a compelling sequence, but territorial succession is not the same thing as genealogical proof. A person is connected to another person on this page only when the source actually states the relationship or when a proposed identity is clearly labelled as probable.
The discovery of Hercules’s sons James and William adds another securely documented family unit, but it does not yet bridge the surviving gaps between the sixteenth-century and seventeenth-century Lunan / Over Dysart generations.
Lunan & the Abbey
The Guthries of Lunan are best understood in their geographic and institutional setting. Lunan lay on the Angus coast north of Arbroath, while many of the earliest records for the family survive because Arbroath Abbey held important rights in the lands and preserved a documentary trail of tacks, feus, teinds, and related transactions.
The wider landscape matters. It explains why the Lunan evidence does not read like a simple succession of Guthrie lairds. The lands passed through ecclesiastical, noble, and secular control while Guthries appear at different periods as tenants, liferenters, and later territorial occupants.
Lunan on the Angus Coast
The surviving records use several place-forms — Lunan, Lownan, Lownane, Innerlownan, Inverlunan, and Inverlowman. These variations belong to the same general local landscape, though they do not necessarily describe precisely the same legal parcel in every document. The Lunan Water, Lunan Bay, and Red Castle provide useful geographic anchors for locating the lands.
Why Arbroath Abbey Matters
Arbroath Abbey is central to the earliest history of this family because its records preserve the first securely identified Guthrie references at Innerlownan. Through those records we can follow William Guthrie in 1418, Robert Guthrie in 1496, James Guthrie in 1512, and John Guthrie with his son Hercules in 1526. Without the Abbey archive, much of the early Lunan story would be lost.
Early Land History of Lunan & Proprietors List
The lands of Lunan passed through Crown, noble, and ecclesiastical hands over several centuries. This broader proprietorial history is important because it prevents the Guthrie references from being mistaken for an uninterrupted succession of hereditary Lunan lairds.
Alexander Warden’s proprietors list remains a useful visual summary of the estate’s longer history, particularly when read beside the more precise primary records from Arbroath Abbey and the later charter evidence.
- Prior to 1189: the lands belonged to the Crown.
- From 1189 onward: Lunan became closely associated with Arbroath Abbey, although superior rights and control shifted among ecclesiastical, Crown, and noble holders over time.
- 14 Dec 1418: William of Guthrie received a formal tack of Innerlownan from Arbroath Abbey. This is the earliest presently identified documentary Guthrie association with the lands, but the agreement represents a tenancy, not ownership of the entire estate.
- 1496, 1512, and 1526: Abbey records continue the Innerlownan tenancy trail with Robert Guthrie, James Guthrie, and John Guthrie with his son Hercules.
- Jul 1544: a feu-charter granted Inverlowman / Lunan to John Stewart, Lord Innermeath, and Elizabeth his wife. The record demonstrates particularly clearly why the land history cannot be treated as an exclusive Guthrie succession.
- 1653–c.1667: John Guthrie appears again in the later proprietorial sequence before the lands passed to Sir Francis Ogilvy of New Grange.
Research note: The earlier version of this profile treated 1428 as the first secure Guthrie date and stated that a 1418 record had not been substantiated. Later examination of the Arbroath Abbey material has superseded that conclusion. The surviving register establishes 14 December 1418 as the earliest presently identified record for William of Guthrie at Innerlownan.
The Guthries of Lunan: A Documentary Timeline
The surviving records document more than a century and a half of Guthrie activity at Innerlownan / Lunan, with the same family network also appearing at Over Dysart by the middle of the sixteenth century. The sequence is substantial, but it should not be mistaken for a proven continuous pedigree. Only relationships expressly stated by a record are treated as certain.
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William of Guthrie — Innerlownan
The Abbot and Convent of Arbroath granted William of Guthrie a formal tack of Innerlownan. The agreement imposed grain rent, court attendance, customary services, and restrictions on subletting.
This is the earliest presently identified personal Guthrie association with Lunan. William was an important Abbey tenant, but the tack does not establish hereditary ownership of the entire Lunan estate.
Source: Arbroath Abbey Register, Vol. II , pp. 59–60, manuscript folio 63. -
William Guthrie of Lownan & Walter Guthrie
William Guthrie of Lownan and Walter Guthrie appear on an assize concerning a boundary perambulation in the Brechin records.
William’s territorial designation makes this a probable later appearance of the earlier Innerlownan tenant. Walter may have been a relative, but the record does not state their relationship.
Source: Registrum Episcopatus Brechinensis , Vol. I, pp. 148–150. -
Robert Guthrie — Innerlownan
Robert Guthrie received a nineteen-year tack of the lands and garbal teinds of Innerlownan from Arbroath Abbey.
The record establishes another Guthrie tenant at the same holding, but it does not identify Robert as William’s son or otherwise define his relationship to the earlier family.
Source: Arbroath Abbey Register, Vol. II , p. 295, manuscript folio 360. -
James Guthrie — Innerlownan
James Guthrie received another nineteen-year tack involving Innerlownan. His appearance continues the repeated Guthrie occupation of the Abbey holding, although the document does not state how he was related to Robert or William.
Source: Arbroath Abbey Register, Vol. II , p. 419, manuscript folio 534. -
John Guthrie & His Son Hercules
Arbroath Abbey granted a nineteen-year tack of Innerlownan and its garbal teinds jointly to John Guthrie and Hercules Guthrie, his son.
This is a major genealogical anchor because the document provides an explicit relationship rather than one inferred from territorial succession.
Source: Arbroath Abbey Register, Vol. II , p. 453, manuscript folio 617. -
Margaret Guthrie of Lunan & Sir Robert Carnegie
Margaret Guthrie of Lunan was married to Sir Robert Carnegie of Kinnaird by this date. She later appears as Dame Margaret Guthre, Lady of Kinnaird, and died in April 1575.
Her father has not been identified, so she cannot yet be placed securely as daughter or sister of any particular Innerlownan tenant.
Sources: Carnegie charter evidence, 12 Jun 1527; NRS Edinburgh Commissary Court, CC8/8/4. -
Hercules Guthrie of Lownane
Hercules Guthrie of Lownane served on a substantial Forfarshire assize.
Only nine years after Hercules was named as John’s son at Innerlownan, a man with the same distinctive name was being styled of Lownane. This strongly supports, but does not by itself prove, that the records describe the same man.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Vol. III , No. 1465. -
Lunan Feued to the Innermeath Family
Cardinal David Beaton and the convent of Arbroath granted a feu-charter of Inverlowman / Lunan to John Stewart, Lord Innermeath, and Elizabeth his wife.
This change in the wider feudal structure did not end Guthrie rights or residence at Lunan, as subsequent records demonstrate.
Source: National Records of Scotland, GD1/796/1. -
James & William — Sons of Hercules of Over Dysart
Royal letters of legitimation were issued to James Guthrie and William Guthrie, expressly identifying them as the natural sons of Hercules Guthrie of Over Dysart.
This is an important addition to the family reconstruction. It supplies two documented sons of Hercules and establishes that the territorial style of Over Dysart was already attached to him by 1551.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Vol. IV , No. 560, 3 Feb 1551. -
Hercules Guthrie in Lownen & Jonet Anderson
William Ruthven of Ballindean sold half of the lands of Drumbernoth to Hercules Guthrie in Lownen and his spouse Jonet Anderson.
The lands were granted to the spouses in conjunct infeftment, with succession to their lawful heirs.
This record documents Jonet as Hercules’s wife, but it should not be used to identify her as the mother of James and William. Their legitimation ten days earlier names only Hercules as their father.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Vol. IV , No. 870. -
Hercules of Over Dysart — Liferenter of Lownan
A decree of the Lords of Council identifies Hercules Guthre of Ower Dysart as liferenter of the lands of Lownan.
The record explicitly combines his Over Dysart territorial style with a legal interest in Lunan. It therefore strengthens the evidence that the two places belonged to the same family history, although the Over Dysart designation is now known to occur as early as 1551.
Source: National Records of Scotland, GD45/16/1132. -
Hercules Guthrie of Lownane & Over Dysart
The Edinburgh Commissariot testament index records Hercules Guthrie of Lownane and Over-Dysart.
His distinctive name, chronology, and repeated association with both Lunan and Over Dysart make it strongly probable that this was the same man first recorded as John’s son in 1526.
Source: Register of Testaments of the Commissariot of Edinburgh — Hercules Guthrie of Lownane and Over-Dysart, 27 Jul 1565. -
Jonet Anderson — Relict of Hercules Guthrie
The testament index records Jonet Anderson as the relict of Hercules Guthrie of Lownane and Over-Dysart.
This later evidence independently confirms her marriage to Hercules and again preserves both territorial associations.
Source: Register of Testaments of the Commissariot of Edinburgh — Jonet Anderson, 28 Jan 1582/83. -
Robert Guthrie of Lwnane
Robert Guthrie of Lwnane received a tack of the teinds of Over Dysart.
The record continues the combined Lunan / Over Dysart pattern after Hercules’s death, although Robert’s relationship to Hercules, James, William, or the later family remains unproved.
Source: Registrum Episcopatus Brechinensis , Vol. II, Appendix CCCXXXIII, p. 345.
Taken together, these records make it highly persuasive that the Hercules appearing from 1526 through the 1560s was one man. Nevertheless, no later record yet explicitly repeats the original formula identifying him as “Hercules, son of John Guthrie of Innerlownan.” The identity is therefore a strongly supported reconstruction rather than an expressly restated pedigree link.
Margaret Guthrie of Lunan & the Carnegie Connection
The best-known member of the early Lunan family is Margaret Guthrie of Lunan, wife of Sir Robert Carnegie of Kinnaird. Their marriage connected the Guthries associated with Lunan to one of the increasingly prominent landed families of Angus.
Margaret is important genealogically because the Carnegie records preserve her identity and family, yet the surviving evidence does not identify her father. She therefore provides one of the clearest documented members of the Lunan group while also illustrating the limits of the surviving pedigree.
Margaret Guthrie of Lunan
Spouse:
Sir Robert Carnegie of Kinnaird
Marriage documented:
by 12 Jun 1527
Later style:
Dame Margaret Guthre, Lady of Kinnaird
Testament made:
22 Apr 1575
Death:
later in Apr 1575
Testament registered:
18 May 1576
The Carnegie Alliance
Sir Robert Carnegie became a prominent royal servant, diplomat, judge, and landholder. His marriage to Margaret placed a woman identified with Lunan within the principal Carnegie family at Kinnaird.
Their children formed the next generation of the Carnegie family, including Sir John Carnegie of Kinnaird and David Carnegie of Colluthie.
By 12 June 1527: Margaret & Robert Carnegie
The precise wedding date has not been established, but Margaret was already Robert Carnegie’s wife by 12 June 1527. On that date Robert resigned the lands of Cookstoun for new infeftment in favour of himself and Margaret Guthrie jointly.
The conjunct infeftment provides a secure documentary marker for their marriage and places Margaret firmly within the same period as the Guthries then holding Innerlownan.
The Children of Sir Robert Carnegie & Margaret Guthrie
Margaret’s own parentage remains unresolved, but the family she formed with Sir Robert Carnegie is much better documented. The pedigree below illustrates their children and the Carnegie generation descending from their marriage.
Margaret lived during the same generation as several documented Innerlownan Guthries. James Guthrie held the Abbey tack in 1512, while John Guthrie and his son Hercules held Innerlownan jointly in 1526 — only a year before Margaret appears as Robert Carnegie’s wife.
That chronology makes a close relationship with the contemporary Lunan tenants entirely plausible, but chronology alone cannot identify her father. No surviving document presently states whether she was a daughter of James, John, another Lunan Guthrie, or a member of some collateral household.
The 1575 Testament
Margaret’s contemporary testament is the strongest evidence for the end of her life. It identifies the deceased as Dame Margaret Guthre, Lady of Kinnaird and records that she made her testament at Kinnaird on 22 April 1575.
The testament states that she died later in the month of April 1575. The record was subsequently registered in the Edinburgh Commissary Court on 18 May 1576.
The testament is valuable for confirming Margaret’s identity, household, status, and final chronology, but it does not supply the missing name of her father.
Her Parentage Remains Unresolved
Later pedigrees have attempted to supply Margaret with a father, sometimes placing her within the Guthries of Guthrie or assigning her to a particular Lunan tenant. No direct documentary evidence presently supports those identifications.
She is most securely described as Margaret Guthrie of Lunan. Any proposed parent must remain a hypothesis until a charter, marriage contract, sasine, testament, service of heir, or comparable record expressly establishes the relationship.
Source caution: some later published Carnegie accounts give 1571 as Margaret’s year of death. The contemporary Edinburgh Commissary Court testament instead places her death in April 1575. For this profile, the original testament is preferred over the later secondary chronology.
From Lunan to Over Dysart
By the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, the surviving records increasingly connect the Guthries of Lunan with the nearby lands of Over Dysart. The transition was not a clean replacement of one territorial style by another. Instead, both designations overlap for several generations, and multiple men named John Guthrie make the later pedigree difficult to separate with certainty.
Hercules Guthrie: The First Documented Over Dysart Family
The association with Over Dysart is stronger than the earlier version of this page suggested. On 3 February 1551, royal letters of legitimation were issued to James Guthrie and William Guthrie, expressly identifying them as the natural sons of Hercules Guthrie of Over Dysart.
This record adds two documented sons to Hercules’s family and proves that the Over Dysart designation was already attached to him by 1551. It should be read beside the separate 1551/1553 charter naming Hercules Guthrie in Lownen and his spouse Jonet Anderson.
John Guthrie of Lunan, Margaret Keith & Their Daughter
A later John Guthrie of Lunan was deceased by April 1626. Sasine evidence identifies his widow as Margaret Keith, who subsequently married David Barclay of Mathers.
John’s testament identifies Margaret Guthrie as his only lawful daughter. This Margaret belongs to a much later generation than Dame Margaret Guthrie, Lady of Kinnaird.
John Guthrie of Over Dysart — Heir to His Uncle John
John Guthrie of Over Dysart was served heir to his uncle John in the town and lands of Inverlunan.
This is one of the most valuable genealogical records for the later family because the nephew-and-uncle relationship is explicit. The deceased uncle may have been the John whose testament was recorded in 1626, but the surviving evidence does not yet prove that identification.
A John Guthrie Household in Lunan
The Lunan parish register records three children of a John Guthrie:
David — 9 Jan 1660
Margaret — 22 May 1661
The mother is indexed as Jane / Jan. Lamb in the first two entries and Margaret Lamb in the third. Whether this represents one woman recorded differently, two wives, or an indexing issue remains unresolved.
These baptisms prove a continuing Guthrie household in Lunan, but they do not by themselves identify this John with the man served heir in 1653.
Another John Guthrie of Lownan
A testament for John Guthrie of Lownan was recorded in the Brechin Commissary Court.
The manuscript has not yet yielded a secure identification of his wife, children, or close kin. Because several men named John Guthrie occur in the Lunan and Over Dysart records during this period, this testament should not automatically be assigned to the John served heir in 1653.
John Guthrie of Over Dysart
Deed indexes repeatedly identify John Guthrie of Over Dysart, including a 1661 contract concerning lands and a 1668 assignation and ratification.
These records show that Over Dysart had become a firmly established territorial designation within the later family.
Lunan Passes from the Guthries
The lands of Lunan passed to Sir Francis Ogilvy of New Grange about 1667. Later accounts place the corresponding sasine on 8 September.
The change did not end the local Guthrie family. Subsequent records continue to identify family members with Over Dysart.
Robert Guthrie of Over Dysart, “Apparent”
A bond identifies Robert Guthrie of Over Dysart, apparent. In this context, the word apparent normally suggests an expected heir, but the abstract does not state explicitly whose heir Robert was.
His place in the family is therefore suggestive but remains unproved.
Continued John Guthrie Interest in Over Dysart
A Crown signature dated 25 July 1673 concerns the lands of Over Dysart granted to John Guthrie.
A John Guthrie of Over Dysart appears again in 1680 as granter of a bond. Because men of this name were already associated with Over Dysart before 1673, the Crown transaction should not automatically be treated as the family’s first acquisition of the property.
John Guthrie & Jean Guthrie
A bond identifies John Guthrie in Owerdysart and expressly names Jean Guthrie as his sister.
The wording in Owerdysart, rather than of Over Dysart, may indicate residence rather than formal proprietorial status. This John should therefore not automatically be merged with every earlier John of Over Dysart.
Elizabeth Guthrie & John Guthrie, Factor to Southesk
The testament of Elizabeth Guthrie, who died in Edinburgh in April 1712, identifies her as the daughter of the deceased John Guthrie of Over Dysart.
Her inventory was given up by her brother german, John Guthrie, who served as factor to the Earl of Southesk.
The Problem of the Many Johns
The seventeenth-century records clearly preserve a continuing Guthrie family around Lunan and Over Dysart, but they do not permit every man named John Guthrie to be arranged safely into one generation-by-generation pedigree. Explicit relationships — father and daughter, uncle and nephew, brother and sister — can be accepted. The identities linking the remaining John Guthries should stay provisional until further testamentary, sasine, charter, or service-of-heir evidence is found.
Other Guthries in Lunan Parish
Not every Guthrie recorded in Lunan parish can presently be placed within the principal Lunan / Over Dysart family. These individuals should nevertheless remain visible. They document a wider Guthrie presence in the parish and may eventually provide additional evidence for relationships that cannot yet be reconstructed.
David Guthrie — Reader at Lunan
David Guthrie served as reader at Lunan from 1574 to 1590. His presence places another Guthrie within the parish during the same broad period in which the territorial family was associated with Lunan and Over Dysart.
No surviving evidence presently identifies his parents or connects him directly to Hercules Guthrie, Robert Guthrie, or Margaret Guthrie, Lady of Kinnaird.
Isobel Guthrie & Rev. Alexander Peddie
The Lunan parish register records the marriage of Isobell Guthrie and Alexander Peddy on 19 February 1671.
Alexander later served as minister of Lunan. Isobel appears again in testamentary records as the wife of Mr Alexander Peadie, minister at Lunan.
Her residence within the parish makes her potentially relevant to the wider Guthrie network, but no surviving record presently names her parents or securely links her to the Guthries of Lunan or Over Dysart.
Hellen Guthrie
The Lunan parish register records the baptism of Hellen Guthrie, daughter of John Guthrie, on 10 August 1697.
The record demonstrates that another Guthrie household remained within Lunan parish late in the seventeenth century, well after the principal estate had passed from Guthrie control.
The baptism does not contain enough identifying information to equate her father securely with any of the contemporary men named John Guthrie of or in Over Dysart.
Why These Records Are Kept Separate
Geographic proximity and a shared surname are not enough to insert these individuals into the reconstructed Lunan pedigree. They remain part of the broader evidence base unless a testament, marriage contract, sasine, service of heir, parish entry, or other contemporary record establishes the missing relationship.
What the Evidence Establishes
The Lunan records are unusually rich in names, territorial designations, and occasional statements of kinship, but they still do not form a complete pedigree. The safest reconstruction is to separate what the documents expressly prove from what they make probable and what remains unresolved.
Documented
- William of Guthrie held Innerlownan from Arbroath Abbey by tack on 14 Dec 1418.
- John Guthrie was the father of Hercules Guthrie; both were named together at Innerlownan in 1526.
- James Guthrie and William Guthrie were the natural sons of Hercules Guthrie of Over Dysart, documented by letters of legitimation in 1551.
- Hercules Guthrie in Lownen was married to Jonet Anderson, documented in the 1551/1553 Drumbernoth charter.
- Margaret Guthrie of Lunan married Sir Robert Carnegie of Kinnaird and was the mother of their documented Carnegie children.
- A later John Guthrie of Lunan was husband of Margaret Keith and father of an only lawful daughter, Margaret Guthrie.
- John Guthrie of Over Dysart was served heir in 1653 to his uncle John in Inverlunan.
- John Guthrie in Owerdysart and Jean Guthrie were brother and sister, documented in 1687.
- Elizabeth Guthrie and John Guthrie, factor to the Earl of Southesk, were siblings and children of a deceased John Guthrie of Over Dysart.
Probable Reconstructions
- The recurring Guthrie tenancies at Innerlownan in 1418, 1496, 1512, and 1526 probably represent successive generations of one local Guthrie family, although the missing parent-child links are not stated.
- The Hercules Guthrie of Lownane documented in 1535 is very probably the Hercules named as John Guthrie’s son at Innerlownan in 1526.
- The man described as Hercules Guthrie in Lownen in 1551 and Hercules of Over Dysart, liferenter of Lownan in 1561 is very probably the same Hercules.
- The repeated use of both Lunan and Over Dysart suggests continuity within the same broader family rather than two unrelated Guthrie groups.
- The deceased uncle in the 1653 retour may have been the John Guthrie of Lunan whose testament was recorded in 1626, but that identity remains circumstantial.
Still Unresolved
- The exact relationship of William Guthrie of Lunan to the later Robert, James, John, and Hercules Guthries.
- The identity of the parents of Margaret Guthrie of Lunan, Lady of Kinnaird.
- Whether the Lunan family can be documented as a cadet branch of the Guthries of Guthrie.
- The mother of James and William Guthrie, natural sons of Hercules. Their 1551 legitimation names Hercules as their father, but does not identify their mother.
- The relationship of Robert Guthrie of Lwnane, documented in 1583, to Hercules and the later Lunan family.
- The exact identities and generation order of the several seventeenth-century men named John Guthrie of Lunan / Over Dysart.
- The father of Robert Guthrie of Over Dysart, apparent, recorded in 1671.
Documented Family Fragments
John Guthrie → son Hercules Guthrie
Hercules Guthrie of Over Dysart → natural sons James Guthrie and William Guthrie
Margaret Guthrie of Lunan + Sir Robert Carnegie of Kinnaird → documented Carnegie family
John Guthrie of Lunan + Margaret Keith → only lawful daughter Margaret Guthrie
John Guthrie of Inverlunan → uncle of John Guthrie of Over Dysart
John Guthrie in Owerdysart ↔ sister Jean Guthrie
deceased John Guthrie of Over Dysart → children Elizabeth Guthrie and John Guthrie, factor to the Earl of Southesk
A Caution About Hercules’s Family
Two records from 1551 now give us different parts of Hercules’s household. One identifies James and William as his natural sons; another identifies Jonet Anderson as his spouse.
Those records should not be combined beyond what they actually say. At present, there is no evidence that Jonet Anderson was the mother of James or William. Their maternity therefore remains unknown unless another record identifies it.
Two Margaret Guthries
The records contain two different women of this name in very different generations. Dame Margaret Guthrie of Lunan, Lady of Kinnaird died in April 1575. The later Margaret Guthrie, daughter of John Guthrie of Lunan and Margaret Keith, belonged to the seventeenth-century family. They should never be combined into one identity.
Current conclusion: the evidence supports a long-running Guthrie family presence at Innerlownan / Lunan and later Over Dysart, beginning securely with William of Guthrie’s Abbey tack in 1418. Several internal relationships are now proved, including the newly documented sons of Hercules, but the missing generations still prevent construction of a single continuous pedigree from William through the seventeenth-century family.
Open Questions
The Lunan evidence has improved considerably, but several key relationships still resist a secure reconstruction. These questions identify the records or connections most likely to change the pedigree if additional evidence is found.
How Were the Early Innerlownan Tenants Related?
Were Robert Guthrie in 1496, James Guthrie in 1512, and John Guthrie in 1526 descendants of William of Guthrie, the documented Abbey tenant in 1418?
Repeated occupation of the same Abbey holding strongly suggests continuity, but the surviving tacks do not presently provide the missing parent-child language.
Who Were Margaret Guthrie of Lunan’s Parents?
Margaret was already married to Sir Robert Carnegie of Kinnaird by 1527 and is securely associated with the Lunan family, but no contemporary record presently names her father or mother.
The known Innerlownan tenants place James, John, and Hercules in the right chronological setting, but none can yet be assigned as her father.
Can Hercules’s Identity Be Proved Across All the Records?
The chronology now makes a very strong case that the Hercules named as John Guthrie’s son in 1526 was the same man later styled of Lownane, in Lownen, and of Over Dysart.
What is still missing is a later record that explicitly identifies Hercules of Lownane or Over Dysart as the son of John Guthrie of Innerlownan.
Who Was the Mother of Hercules’s Sons James & William?
The 1551 letters of legitimation identify James and William Guthrie as the natural sons of Hercules Guthrie of Over Dysart, but do not name their mother.
A separate charter identifies Jonet Anderson as Hercules’s spouse. Nothing presently proves that she was the mother of James or William.
What Became of James & William Guthrie?
The discovery of Hercules’s two natural sons creates an important new research path. Did either son survive to adulthood, acquire land, marry, or leave descendants?
Establishing their later histories may help bridge the gap between Hercules and the Guthries appearing at Lunan and Over Dysart later in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.
Where Does Robert Guthrie of Lwnane Fit?
Robert Guthrie of Lwnane appears in 1583 in connection with the teinds of Over Dysart. His territorial associations place him very close to Hercules’s documented family.
No surviving record presently identifies Robert as a son, grandson, nephew, or other relative of Hercules.
Can the Seventeenth-Century Johns Be Separated?
Several men named John Guthrie appear at Lunan, Inverlunan, and Over Dysart during the seventeenth century. Some may be the same person; others clearly belong to different generations.
The 1626 and 1659 testaments, the 1653 retour, parish baptisms, deed indexes, and later property records need to be compared systematically before these men can be arranged securely.
Who Was Robert Guthrie of Over Dysart, “Apparent”?
A 1671 bond names Robert Guthrie of Over Dysart, apparent. The style strongly suggests expected succession, but the abstract does not identify the person to whom Robert was apparent heir.
Determining his father could provide a crucial generational link within the later Over Dysart family.
Can Lunan Be Linked Directly to the Guthries of Guthrie?
Geographic proximity and the antiquity of both families make a relationship possible, but no direct charter, sasine, marriage contract, service of heir, or comparable record presently proves that the Guthries of Lunan were a cadet branch of the Guthries of Guthrie.
Any such connection should remain a research question rather than a pedigree conclusion.
What Was the Exact Legal History of Lunan After the Abbey Period?
The 1544 Innermeath feu, the later Guthrie liferent and territorial interests, and the eventual transfer to the Ogilvys show that several kinds of landholding rights overlapped at Lunan.
A fuller title sequence could clarify exactly what the later Guthries held, when those rights changed, and how Lunan and Over Dysart became linked within the same family history.
Highest-Priority Research Targets
- Trace James and William Guthrie, natural sons of Hercules, forward from their 1551 legitimation.
- Examine the full 1671 deed naming Robert Guthrie of Over Dysart, apparent.
- Re-examine the complete 1626 and 1659 John Guthrie testaments alongside the 1653 service of heir.
- Search for any record naming the parents of Margaret Guthrie of Lunan.
- Continue searching charters, sasines, retours, and marriage contracts for a direct link between Lunan and the Guthries of Guthrie.
Research principle: territorial designations such as of Lunan, of Lownane, in Lownen, and of Over Dysart are valuable evidence of place and status, but they are not by themselves proof of descent. The reconstruction will continue to distinguish an explicitly documented relationship from a probable identity, territorial continuity, or an unresolved possibility.
Most Wanted Documents
Records That Could Connect the Lunan Family Fragments
The Lunan evidence now reaches back securely to William of Guthrie’s Innerlownan tack of 1418 and contains several later relationships that are directly proved. What it does not yet provide is a single continuous pedigree joining every Guthrie tenant, landholder and family group across three centuries.
These targets focus on the records most likely to bridge those gaps. Territorial continuity is important evidence, but it will not be treated as proof of descent unless a document actually states the relationship.
1. The Early Innerlownan Tenants — Bridge William, Robert, James & John
4 Jun 1496: Robert Guthrie holds Innerlownan.
1512: James Guthrie receives the tack.
28 Mar 1526: John Guthrie and his son Hercules are named together.
The Question
Were Robert, James and John descendants of the earlier William, and what were the actual relationships among the successive Innerlownan tenants?
Why This Matters
The repeated Guthrie occupation strongly suggests family continuity, but only John → Hercules is currently expressed as a parent-child relationship. Finding even one earlier succession clause could transform the opening generations of the profile.
What We Need
High-quality manuscript images should be checked for omitted relationship wording, predecessors, co-tenants, sureties and witnesses not fully represented in the printed register.
2. Dame Margaret Guthrie of Lunan — Identify Her Father
The Question
Which member of the Lunan family was Margaret’s father?
Why This Matters
Margaret is the most important genealogical bridge between the Lunan Guthries and the Carnegie family. Her parentage could also establish one of the missing relationships among the early Innerlownan tenants.
What We Need
Search the Carnegie and Southesk family papers for marriage, property and inheritance material surrounding Margaret’s marriage to Robert Carnegie. Particular attention should be paid to documents reciting her kin, tocher, consenters or inheritance rights.
3. James & William Guthrie — Trace the Natural Sons of Hercules
The Question
What became of James and William after their legitimation, and who was their mother?
Why This Matters
Either son could provide the missing bridge between Hercules and the later Guthries of Lunan and Over Dysart. Their survival, marriages, landholding and descendants therefore matter far more than their brief appearance in the legitimation alone.
What We Need
Follow both men through later Great Seal records, sasines, deeds, testaments, services of heirs and local church records. Any record naming their mother should be treated separately from the evidence naming Jonet Anderson as Hercules’s spouse.
4. Robert Guthrie of Lwnane — Connect the 1583 Over Dysart Tacksman
The Question
Was Robert a son, grandson or other relative of Hercules Guthrie of Over Dysart, or does he represent a separate Guthrie household?
Why This Matters
Robert’s simultaneous connection with Lunan and Over Dysart places him squarely within the same territorial network, but geography alone does not establish descent.
What We Need
Search roughly 1560–1610 for Robert in Brechin diocesan records, land records, testaments and local contracts, especially records that identify kin.
5. The Seventeenth-Century Johns — Reconcile the 1626, 1653 & 1659 Records
Angus Retour no. 326 — 4 Nov 1653, John Guthrie of Over Dysart served heir to his uncle John Guthrie of Inverlunan.
CC3/4/4 — testament of another John Guthrie of Lownan, recorded 13 Jul 1659.
The Question
Which of these records belong to the same John Guthrie, which belong to different generations, and was the 1626 John the uncle whose property descended in 1653?
Why This Matters
This is the principal obstacle to reconstructing the later Lunan–Over Dysart family. The 1653 retour gives us a genuine uncle-nephew relationship, but it cannot safely be attached to the other Johns without further evidence.
What We Need
Re-examine both complete testaments, the original retour, parish baptisms, sasines and local kirk-session material together. Extract every spouse, child, creditor, debtor, executor, witness and place name before attempting to merge identities.
6. Robert Guthrie of Over Dysart, “Apparent” — Retrieve the Full 1671 Bond
The Question
Who was Robert’s father or predecessor?
Why This Matters
The word apparent strongly suggests expected succession. If the full deed names the person to whom Robert was heir apparent, it could supply the missing generational link within the later Over Dysart family.
What We Need
The full registered bond, including the complete designation of Robert, all parties, cautioners and witnesses, plus the exact register and folio reference.
7. The Later Over Dysart Family — Connect the 1673, 1687 & 1712 Generations
NRS GD45/17/646, 19 Aug 1687 — John Guthrie in Owerdysart names Jean Guthrie as his sister.
CC8/8/85, 11 Aug 1712 — Elizabeth Guthrie is daughter of a deceased John Guthrie of Over Dysart and sister-german of John Guthrie, factor to the Earl of Southesk.
The Question
How do the 1687 siblings fit with the John Guthrie who held rights in Over Dysart in 1673, and was the deceased father of Elizabeth and John in 1712 one of these same men?
Why This Matters
The later family contains several explicit relationships, but the relationships between those family units remain unproved. Linking them could extend the Over Dysart pedigree securely into the eighteenth century.
What We Need
Compare the Crown signature, bonds, parish registers, testaments, kirk-session records and Southesk estate papers for explicit father-child or heirship language.
8. Lunan → Guthrie of Guthrie — Find a Direct Documentary Connection
The Question
Was the Lunan family genealogically part of the principal Guthrie landed kindred, or was the shared surname and Angus setting the result of a more distant or separate origin?
Why This Matters
This is the largest pedigree question on the page, but it should only be answered by direct evidence. Geographic proximity, antiquity and repetition of names are not enough.
What We Need
Search charters, sasines, marriage settlements, retours and family papers on both sides of the proposed connection, with particular attention to collateral relatives who may name Lunan kin in witness, inheritance or marriage contexts.
Sources & Further Research
The reconstruction of the Guthries of Lunan depends on several different classes of evidence. Arbroath Abbey tacks establish the early Innerlownan tenancy; later royal charters, land records, sasines, services of heirs, testaments, deeds, and parish registers preserve fragments of family relationships.
No single source provides a complete pedigree. The records are therefore most useful when read together, with contemporary primary evidence given greater weight than later published pedigrees or retrospective family histories.
Arbroath Abbey & the Early Innerlownan Tenancy
- Primary 14 Dec 1418 — William of Guthrie. Tack of Innerlownan. Arbroath Abbey Register, Vol. II, pp. 59–60, manuscript folio 63. Guthrie Genealogy transcription / research notes .
- Primary 4 Jun 1496 — Robert Guthrie. Nineteen-year tack of Innerlownan and its garbal teinds. Arbroath Abbey Register, Vol. II, p. 295, manuscript folio 360.
- Primary 1512 — James Guthrie. Nineteen-year tack involving Innerlownan. Arbroath Abbey Register, Vol. II, p. 419, manuscript folio 534.
- Primary 28 Mar 1526 — John Guthrie and his son Hercules. Tack of Innerlownan and its garbal teinds. Arbroath Abbey Register, Vol. II, p. 453, manuscript folio 617. This is the earliest presently identified explicit father-and-son relationship within the Lunan records.
Great Seal, Brechin & Sixteenth-Century Evidence
- Primary 1450 — William Guthrie of Lownan and Walter Guthrie. Assize concerning the marches of Menmuir and Brechin. Registrum Episcopatus Brechinensis , Vol. I, pp. 148–150.
- Primary 14 Apr 1535 — Hercules Guthrie of Lownane. Member of a Forfarshire assize. Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Vol. III , No. 1465.
- Primary 3 Feb 1551 — James and William Guthrie. Letters of legitimation identifying them as the natural sons of Hercules Guthrie of Over Dysart. Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Vol. IV , No. 560.
- Primary 13 Feb 1551 / confirmed 4 Dec 1553 — Hercules Guthrie and Jonet Anderson. Charter concerning half of the lands of Drumbernoth, identifying Hercules Guthrie in Lownen and his spouse Jonet Anderson. RMS IV, No. 870.
- Primary 26 Dec 1583 — Robert Guthrie of Lwnane. Tack of the teinds of his lands of Over Dysart. Registrum Episcopatus Brechinensis, Vol. II, Appendix CCCXXXIII, p. 345.
National Records of Scotland — Lunan & Over Dysart
- Primary NRS GD1/796/1 — Jul 1544. Feu-charter by Cardinal David Beaton and the convent of Arbroath to John Stewart, Lord Innermeath, and Elizabeth his wife of the lands of Inverlowman.
- Primary NRS GD45/16/1132 — 5 May 1561. Decree identifying Hercules Guthre of Ower Dysart as liferenter of the lands of Lownan.
- Primary Angus Retour No. 326 — 4 Nov 1653. John Guthrie of Over Dysart served heir to his uncle John in the town and lands of Inverlunan.
- Primary Register of Deeds — 1661. John Guthrie of Over Dysart, principal party in a contract concerning lands. The full deed and exact register folio remain a retrieval target.
- Primary Register of Deeds — 1668. John Guthrie of Over Dysart, grantee in an assignation and ratification. The full deed remains to be examined.
- Primary Register of Deeds — 18 Dec 1671. Bond naming Robert Guthrie of Over Dysart, apparent. The full deed is especially important because it may identify the person to whom Robert was apparent heir.
- Primary NRS SIG1/64/53 — 25 Jul 1673. Crown signature concerning the lands of Over Dysart granted to John Guthrie.
- Primary Register of Deeds — 1680. John Guthrie of Over Dysart appears as granter of a bond.
- Primary NRS GD45/17/646 — 19 Aug 1687. Bond by John Guthrie in Owerdysart naming Jean Guthrie as his sister.
- Primary NRS GD45/16/3000 — 5 Feb 1713. Discharge to John Guthrie in Bolishan, factor to the Earl of Southesk.
Testaments, Sasines & Family Relationships
- Primary Dame Margaret Guthre, Lady of Kinnaird. National Records of Scotland, Edinburgh Commissary Court, CC8/8/4, images 293–294. Testament made 22 Apr 1575; death later in Apr 1575; registered 18 May 1576.
- Primary John Guthrie of Lownan. St Andrews Commissary Court, CC20/4/8; testament recorded 26 Apr 1626. The record identifies his only lawful daughter Margaret Guthrie.
- Primary Margaret Keith. Kincardine Sasines, Vol. 2, fol. 239, 10 Apr 1626. Identified as relict of John Guthrie of Lunan and later spouse of David Barclay of Mathers.
- Primary John Guthrie of Lownan. Brechin Commissary Court, CC3/4/4; testament recorded 13 Jul 1659. The manuscript remains a priority for closer analysis.
- Primary Isobel Guthrie. St Andrews Commissary Court, CC20/4/14; testament recorded 19 Apr 1683. She is identified as spouse of Mr Alexander Peadie, minister at Lunan.
- Primary Elizabeth Guthrie. Edinburgh Commissary Court, CC8/8/85, 11 Aug 1712. Daughter of the deceased John Guthrie of Over Dysart and sister german of John Guthrie, factor to the Earl of Southesk.
Lunan Parish & Ecclesiastical Records
- Primary 27 May 1658. Baptism of Francis Guthrie, son of John Guthrie and Jane Lamb. Lunan Old Parish Register; Scotland’s People.
- Primary 9 Jan 1660. Baptism of David Guthrie, son of John Guthrie and Jan. Lamb. Lunan Old Parish Register; Scotland’s People.
- Primary 22 May 1661. Baptism of Margaret Guthrie, daughter of John Guthrie and Margaret Lamb. Lunan Old Parish Register; Scotland’s People.
- Primary 19 Feb 1671. Marriage of Isobell Guthrie and Alexander Peddy. Lunan Old Parish Register; Scotland’s People.
- Primary 10 Aug 1697. Baptism of Hellen Guthrie, daughter of John Guthrie. Lunan Old Parish Register; Scotland’s People.
- Archive NRS CH2/253. Records of Lunan / Lunan and Inverkeilor Kirk Session, 1654–1970.
- Published Hew Scott, Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Vol. V, p. 445. David Guthrie is recorded as reader at Lunan from 1574 to 1590.
Margaret Guthrie & the Carnegie Family
- Primary Charter evidence dated 12 Jun 1527 documents Robert Carnegie and Margaret Guthrie in conjunct infeftment of Cookstoun, establishing that they were married by that date.
- Primary NRS Edinburgh Commissary Court CC8/8/4 — testament testamentar and inventory of Dame Margaret Guthre, Lady of Kinnaird.
- Published William Fraser, History of the Carnegies, Earls of Southesk, and of Their Kindred, Vol. I. Useful for Carnegie family context and cited charter material.
- Published Sir James Balfour Paul, The Scots Peerage, Vol. VIII, Southesk. Useful as a compiled pedigree source but subordinate to contemporary charter and testamentary evidence where dates conflict.
Land History, Historical Mapping & Published Context
- Published Alexander Warden, Angus or Forfarshire: The Land and People, Descriptive and Historical, Vol. IV (1884), pp. 246–249. Used for the broader proprietorial history of Lunan and as the basis for the Proprietors of Lunan comparison graphic.
- Map Historical Angus mapping used to place Guthrie, Lunan, and Arbroath Abbey within the same regional landscape. The website image has been cropped, cleaned, and annotated for Guthrie Genealogy.
- Visual Guthrie Genealogy map: Arbroath Abbey — Lunan — Guthrie .
How These Sources Are Used
A territorial designation is not treated as a pedigree statement. Likewise, the appearance of successive Guthries at Innerlownan is evidence of probable family continuity, but it does not by itself prove each missing father-son link.
Relationships are treated as documented only when the source itself supplies the kinship language — for example John Guthrie and his son Hercules in 1526, James and William as natural sons of Hercules in 1551, the uncle-nephew relationship of 1653, and the later explicitly identified siblings.
When Published Accounts Conflict with a Contemporary Record
Some later Carnegie publications place the death of Margaret Guthrie, Lady of Kinnaird in 1571. Her contemporary Edinburgh Commissary Court testament, CC8/8/4, instead places her testament and death in April 1575, with registration on 18 May 1576. This profile therefore follows the original testament rather than the later secondary chronology.
Research Still in Progress
Several important records still require fuller examination, particularly the seventeenth-century deeds and testaments that may clarify the later Lunan and Over Dysart generations. The principal unresolved genealogical problems — and the records most likely to answer them — are outlined in Open Questions.
Research principle: this profile distinguishes documented relationships, probable reconstructions, and open questions. New evidence will be incorporated where it strengthens or changes the reconstruction, but gaps in the surviving record will remain visible rather than being filled from pedigree tradition alone.