GUTHRIES of AYRSHIRE, SCT / (PA, MD, & VA) USA / CAN / NZ

GUTHRIE RESEARCH TREE: GFG3A

🧬 Guthrie Family Group 3A: An Overview

Guthrie Family Group 3A (GFG3A) represents a significant cluster of the Guthrie clan with deep roots in Scotland and expansive migrations to the Americas and New Zealand. Recent DNA advancements, specifically the Big Y-700 test, have provided a high-definition map of how these branches diverged from a common ancestor in the 1400s-1600s.

🌳 The Genetic Landscape (Big Y-700 Analysis)

The attached Block Tree reveals the precise SNP (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism) markers that define this group:

• R-BY12113 (~1400 CE): The foundational marker for this cluster. The red icon represents the Most Recent Common Ancestor for both American and New Zealand Branches.
• R-BY12121 (~1600 CE): A major split point. This lineage eventually leads to the American “Francis Guthrie Sr” descendants and the “John Guthrie/Mary Fuller” line.
• R-FTC5164: A distinct sub-branch that includes the New Zealand Guthrie line (William b.1763 SCT) and, interestingly, a genetic match to the William Gray lineage.

🔍 Detailed Branch Breakdown

Branch A: Descendants of Francis Guthrie, Sr.

This branch constitutes the primary American lineage of GFG3A. It is important to note that this branch has undergone some changes compared to the original published theories presented in ‘American Guthrie and Allied Families,’ by author Lawrence R. Guthrie. Collaborative research by Guthrie Genealogy members has provided new evidence as to the identities of Francies Guthrie Sr.’s sons. Genetic testing of descendants from all three sons has confirmed their shared Guthrie origin.

Guthrie Genealogy blog articles discuss the details:
GFG3 Theories: Part 1
GFG3 Theories: Part 2
The Forgotten Sons

• Sub-Branch 3A-1: Robert Guthrie & Esther Giles
  • A well-documented line often found in early Virginia and Pennsylvania records.
  • Children: Ann Guthrie (m. FNU King); John Guthrie (m.Mary Fuller), Phebe Guthrie (m. John Gadberry), Mary Guthrie (m1. Ephraim Skiles Jr; m2. John Scott), James Guthrie (unmarried?, died before 1788), Sarah Guthrie (m1. Isaac Davis, m2. John Van Lear Sr), Richard Guthrie (m. Elizabeth Esther McIntosh), Robert Guthrie (unmarried; died c1794).
• Sub-Branch 3A-2: Francis Guthrie Jr. & Susannah (MNU)
  • Francis Guthrie Jr’s identity was overlooked in early PA records merging him with his father, but he was indeed a separate individual.
  • Research continues to identify Susannah’s maiden name to unlock further autosomal connections.
  • Children: Alexander Guthrie (m. Jean McFerran), Francis Guthrie (speculative, marital status unknown), Nancy Guthrie (m. Thomas Cribbins), James W Guthrie (m. Isabella Carmichael), William Guthrie (m. Hannah Smiley).
• Sub-Branch 3A-3: John Guthrie & Unidentified Spouse
  • John Guthrie was another ‘Forgotten Son’ of Francis Guthrie Sr. His spouse remains unidentified.
  • Children: James Guthrie (m. Elizabeth Casdorph), Susan Guthrie (m. Henry Casdorph), Alexander Guthrie (m. Eleanor Amis), Robert Guthrie (m. Frances Fowler), Anne Guthrie (m. Elijah Fowler), Mary ‘Polly’ Guthrie (m. James Kitchen).

Branch B: The Scottish & New Zealand Line

This branch is defined by William Guthrie (b. 1763, SCT). His descendants migrated to New Zealand, maintaining a distinct genetic signature (R-FTC5164) shared with the Gray lineage.

• New Discovery: Autosomal DNA research has recently linked this branch to George Guthrie (1728-1802) and Margaret Bowie.
• Elite Connections: This discovery links Branch B to the family of Christina Guthrie of Mount, Lady Oranmore, elevating the genealogical profile of the group.
• Deep Ancestry: The lineage is theorized to trace back to George Guthrie (1660-1712) and Isobald Hewie via their son John Guthrie (1690-1743) and Janet Howie.

🧩 The “William Gray” Mystery

One of the most intriguing results of the Big Y-700 test is the inclusion of a descendant of William Gray within the Guthrie GFG3A block.

• The Connection: The Gray participant shares the R-FTC5164 marker with William Guthrie (b. 1763).
• The Implication: This suggests that either a Gray ancestor was biologically a Guthrie, or vice-versa, occurring likely in the early-to-mid 1700s in Scotland. It highlights the power of Y-DNA to reveal family secrets that paper records cannot.

🧪Speculative Relationships: The Pitforthie Mystery

A significant point of research for GFG3A is the ancestral connection to the Guthries of Pitforthie. While tradition and certain autosomal links suggest this lineage, the genetic data presents a fascinating “two-claimant” riddle involving both GFG3A and another distinct group, GFG2A.

The Key Figure: Rev. John Guthrie

Rev. John Guthrie, the Minister of Tarbolton, was the youngest son of James Guthrie and Janet Lyon of Pitforthie. His life was defined by the religious and political upheaval of the Covenanter period.

• Residence: Tarbolton Parish, South Ayrshire—a rural area of 18.9 sq. miles famous for its later association with Robert Burns and the “Bachelors’ Club.”
• The Conflict: Charged with treason during the Covenanter era, his death sentence was commuted. However, records of his later life and death are plagued by conflicting dates and details.

One Progenitor, Two Genetic Identities?

The core mystery lies in whether Rev. John Guthrie left descendants, and if so, which genetic group they belong to. There are currently two competing theories:

The Tarbolton Connection

If GFG3A is indeed the true biological descendant of the Pitforthie line through Rev. John, it places the family at the heart of South Ayrshire’s history. The proximity to the towns of Mauchline and Prestwick suggests a lineage that was well-integrated into the Scottish Lowlands before the migrations of the 1700s.

Research Note: The conflicting information regarding Rev. John’s death is the “smoking gun.” If he died shortly after his sentence in Scotland without issue, then neither group may be his direct descendants. If he lived, the genetic “fork in the road” between the Irish GFG2A and the Scottish GFG3A remains the most compelling mystery in Guthrie genealogy.

🏁 Summary for Researchers: The Road to Pitforthie

The GFG3A study has evolved from a simple search for American ancestors into a high-stakes investigation of Scottish ecclesiastical history. The data now positions this group at a historical crossroads, directly challenging the traditional narrative of another genetic group (GFG2A).

The Pitforthie Conflict

We are currently faced with a “Two John Guthries” problem. Both GFG3A and GFG2A claim descent from the Guthries of Pitforthie via the Rev. John Guthrie of Tarbolton. However, DNA proves these two groups are not biologically related within a genealogical timeframe.

Resolution Roadmap

To resolve whether GFG3A is the true biological heir to the Pitforthie line, research must focus on three critical areas:

1. The “Ayrshire Stay”: We must verify if the Rev. John Guthrie’s commuted sentence allowed him to remain in the Tarbolton/Ayrshire area. If GFG3A (specifically the 3B branch) can solidify the link between George Guthrie (1660) and the Reverend, it confirms GFG3A as the Pitforthie line.
2. The “Irish Flight”: Conversely, if evidence surfaces that Rev. John definitely fled to Ireland and married Jane Stuart, the GFG2A claim gains weight, suggesting GFG3A might descend from a different Guthrie branch entirely.
3. The Gray Factor: The presence of the William Gray match in GFG3A is a wild card. It suggests a potential surname change or NPE in the early 1700s near Ayrshire. Determining when the Gray/Guthrie split occurred will help date the Guthrie presence in that region.

Strategic Objectives

• Big Y-700 Expansion: We need more GFG3A participants from the Branch 3A-3 (John Guthrie) line to see if their SNP markers pre-date the 1600s split, providing a clearer “clock” for the Pitforthie connection.
• Targeted Autosomal Testing: Focus on descendants of the Lady Oranmore line. If their DNA consistently triangulates with GFG3A members and not GFG2A members, the “Pitforthie Resolution” tips strongly in favor of GFG3A.
• Archivial Deep-Dive: A search for Tarbolton manse records or Covenanter-era pardons may provide the definitive “paper trail” regarding Rev. John’s movements post-sentencing.

The Bottom Line: While the paper trail is currently tangled, the DNA is clear—only one of these groups can be the biological Pitforthie line. GFG3A’s recent connection to the Guthrie of Mount estate makes it a formidable candidate for the true lineage.

🧩 Is This Your Piece of the Puzzle?

Your family story is a thread in a global tapestry.

While you may only know your immediate relatives, you are genetically linked to thousands of Guthrie cousins across the globe. That “minor” detail in your grandmother’s journal or that obscure Bible record in your attic could be the missing link a fellow researcher has been hunting for decades.

How You Can Help:

• Share Your Knowledge: Have you found a record that clarifies an ancestor’s location?
• Contribute a Story: Do you have a family legend or a photo that brings a branch to life?
• Write with Us: Want to feature your branch in an article? We can help you draft it!
• Solve a Mystery: Are you a DNA enthusiast? Help us analyze pattern markers.

Don’t let your branch of the tree remain a secret. [Contact Ann] today to share info, suggest an article, or start a collaboration.

Let’s write the next chapter of the GFG3A story together.

🔍 RESEARCH CREDIT & DISCUSSIONS

Sharyn Guthrie
Rachelle Child
Diana Guthrie