GFG14 Match
A new Y-DNA Match for GFG14 confirms the family placement for John Guthrie and Jane Porterfield. Guthrie Family Group 14 represents the descendants of George Nelson Guthrie. His origins are still a little murky. Probably from the New York area, with several brothers who were Revolutionary War Soldiers. Unidentified brothers, unfortunately. The YDNA matches men of the Joyce or Joice surname, so we have a genetic mismatch mystery with this group that continues to be confirmed by Y-DNA results. George is also frequently misidentified as the George Guthrie who is a son of GFG2A-Branch E’s Robert Guthrie and Bridget Dougherty. This is another family. Current New York matches tend to be related to Group 6, but we need evidence to link them together, or rule them out.
George Nelson Guthrie reportedly moved his family from New York to the western frontier (Pennsylvania). They went from there to Ohio, and from Ohio to Indiana.
JOHN GUTHRIE
Born: 12 Oct 1805 in Pennsylvania (Discrepancy? A calculation: 72Y 6M 22D on 2 Apr 1877 = DOB of 11 Sep 1804)
Occupation: Farmer
Married: Abt. 1830 to Jane Porterfield
Children: Martha, Joseph, Ebenezer, Maria, John H, Susanna, Mary Jane, George W. Margaret
Residences: Pennsylvania; Richland (c1840) and Morrow (c1850) Counties, Ohio; Noble County, Indiana (c1870)
Death: 2 April 1877 at the age of 72Years 6Months 22Days
Since all descendants of GFG14 most likely lead back to George Nelson Guthrie as their shared ancestor, a look through the known descendants leads back to a probable set of parents for John Guthrie.
Based on the approximate DOB and the DNA match, John Guthrie is most likely the son of John Ernest Guthrie (1774NY-1839OH) and Susanna Hodgkinson (1778IRE-1854OH).
Guthrie Family Group 14 now includes 5 men of the Guthrie surname.
Four are participants at the Y37 marker level. 1 has a Y67 test.
Since this is a Small Guthrie Family Group with a lot of Joyce/Joice matches, I recommend that members add the Joyce DNA Project (if one exists) to their list. I also recommend that you invite them to join this project as there is no guarantee they are official members of the Joyce DNA Project.
Big-Y testing would also give you a better idea of the originating Joyce lineage, and the timeline of when your line actually split off from the Joyce family. Several of them appear to have already tested at that level. See your results page for their current testing levels.
Is this DNA from R1a or R1b
Group 14’s Haplogroup is R-M269. R1a and R1b are part of the old classification system, which is not reported on the FTDNA results. Referring to the all-knowing Wikipedia, R-M269 is associated with R1b1a1a.
While I have you here, a relative of one of your relative’s YDNA Matches is considering upgrading his kit to the Big Y-700. Doing the same with your relative’s kit (and getting others from GFG6 involved) may help answer some of your questions about branching and distance within the group. See the last post on the upcoming BigY TreeTIme developments. Let me know if you want me to put you in touch to collaborate.
What is the cost? And which Match?
Since it is a Kit Upgrade it should be about half of the regular price, but it depends on the original test. I won’t have access to see it. Sign in to M’s kit, click on the red Add Ons & Upgrades Button on the top bar and select Upgrades. That should show you the cost for the Big Y-700 test. It is still a little pricey, but there are always sales events. Read the last News Post to get the full details on how it could help. The Match is for SG’s kit, and I can put you in touch with his niece.
Searching Australian Guthrie’s, who immigrated from Scotland to Victoria, Australia.
Please identify your early ancestors by name and DOB/DOD so we can identify them. Have you participated in DNA testing?
Ann,
Great news.
I did some work on this line in WikiTree since your post . A George Guthrie was conflated across the George Nelson Guthrie ( https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Guthrie-5469). I have corrected this and added Research Notes to avoid that happening in the future, hopefully. I also I added the line down to John Guthrie and Jane Porterfield, as I am a Porterfield researcher, as you may recall.
Family Search has bigger issues, as you noted on the profile for a conflated George, I did not deal with those issues, yet.
Jane Porterfield Guthrie (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Porterfield-2239) purportedly was born in Belmont County, Ohio per FindAGrave, but does not fit seem to into other known/suspected Porterfields from Belmont County, Ohio. Any clues you have about her parentage would be of interest.
Hi Marty,
Thank you for updating the WikiTree entry for George Nelson Guthrie. That is one of those places from which misinformation can spread like wildfire if there is not someone to keep it in check.
Regarding Jane Porterfield and Belmont, OH, I have no info to prove or refute the Belmont claim.
put me in contact with SG’s niece Thank You
Of course! I will send her an email with your contact info.
Ann I have a match on family finder with Uncle Miltons kit with a Nelson, I contacted them and they think their family came to Louisiana from New York but not sure. I have not pursued this but did notice a Joseph Nelson on lot 104 next to 102 and 105 that George and John Guthrie had in Turners patent. So even though George Nelson Guthrie is not related to us could this help that line?? Just a thought.
Thanks for sharing! You bring up a good point, too. It’s always a good idea when reviewing documents to look at the names of the people around your ancestor. People tended to emigrate in groups, and finding familiar names in one place can be the clue that leads to another.