Source References
Writs of the Lands of Guthrie, National Records of Scotland, GD188/1/1, sasine dated 23 August 1474.
Acts of the Lords of Council in Civil Causes, Vol. II, pp. 53, 144, 298, 351, 373, 486, 489–490; Vol. III, pp. 29, 126, 170, 189, 218, 221.
Acts of the Lords of Council in Public Affairs, 1538 and 1549.
Facts from the Records
A sasine among the Writs of the Lands of Guthrie dated 23 August 1474 identifies Alexander Guthrie as son and heir of the deceased David Guthre of Guthrie, knight, in connection with the lands of Guthrie.
This provides direct primary-source evidence that Alexander was the son and heir of Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie. The record does not identify Alexander’s mother.
The 1474 record provides an important chronological anchor for the later Sir Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk, knight, who appears repeatedly in the Acts of the Lords of Council from the 1490s through the early sixteenth century.
Mother: Documented — Jonete, wife of Sir David Guthrie. Her surname is not established by the cited primary evidence; “Dundas” remains a traditional identification requiring confirmation.
Sir Alexander’s earliest appearance in this record set is on 17 January 1496–97, when he pursued John Dempster of Auchterless concerning the alleged wrongful detention and spuilzie of substantial quantities of grain. The disputed property included 40 chalders of oats, 10 chalders of bere, and half a chalder of pease, allegedly taken from the lands of Pettintostale by William Carmichael. Sir Alexander had become pledge before the justice in the justice ayre of Dundee.
On 19 March 1497–98, the Lords ordered Sir Alexander to restore the same grain to John Dempster because he had failed to prove that it had already been restored and paid for. Execution of distraint against his lands and goods was temporarily postponed by consent of the parties.
On 14 January 1498–99, William Carmichael protested concerning a summons raised by Sir Alexander requiring Carmichael to relieve and keep him skaithless in connection with the grain claimed by Dempster. Sir Alexander failed to appear to pursue the matter. A further protest concerning the same relief action appears on 31 January 1499–1500.
On 20 January 1499–1500, Sir Alexander pursued William Carmichael concerning ten chalders of oats, with Carmichael appointing procurators in the action. These proceedings form part of the continuing series of litigation over the grain taken from the lands of Dempster.
On 15 March 1500–01, Sir Alexander is expressly identified as the Laird of Guthrie. He entered a protective protest concerning the capacity in which he had been called to warrant certain lands. The same proceeding records that he granted to James of Durham, David Rossy of that Ilk, and Gelis Scrymgeour, his spouse, a warrant and defence concerning the lands of Eastertoun of Guthrie, including the mill and mill lands, in their tacks and mailings.
On 17 March 1500–01, Sir Alexander was involved in the major litigation concerning Kirktoun and Eastertoun of Guthrie. He appeared as a defender in a dispute over the Guthrie lands and accepted a warranty obligation. The proceeding also records an earlier letter under the seal of Thomas Tulloch of Bonnyngtoun addressed to the late Mr David Guthrie of that Ilk.
On 10 May 1501, Sir Alexander appeared in another action brought by John Dempster of Auchterless. He appeared through his procurator, Mr Malcolm Guthrie, and the Lords ordered the sheriff of Forfar to put the relevant royal letters and earlier decree to execution.
On 4 March 1502, Sir Alexander appears as curator for the late Sir Thomas Maule of Panmure, in an action concerning a purported charter and instrument of sasine for the lands of Petlevy. The Lords ordered him to produce the retour and letters of curatory relating to the late Sir Thomas Maule.
On 5 January 1503, Sir Alexander was sued by Mr Andrew Cadiow for wrongful withholding of £91. The Lords ordered Alexander to make specified payments under an obligation bearing his subscription, while discharging him from a further £51 that Cadiow acknowledged had already been paid.
On 26 January 1503, Sir Alexander was required to warrant, acquiet, and defend the sixth part of the lands of Eastertoun of Guthrie, including the fourth part of the mill and mill lands, to James of Durham of the Graing, heir of the deceased Mr Thomas Durham. The obligation was based upon a charter granted by Sir Alexander to Thomas Durham and his heirs.
On 3 February 1503, Sir Alexander pursued John Dempster for alleged double payment of the grain involved in the earlier dispute. Alexander claimed that Dempster had received the same quantities of oats, bere, and pease both from him and from the late David, Duke of Montrose. The Lords ultimately found Dempster quit of Alexander’s claim.
On 4 February 1503, Sir Alexander acted as procurator for Margaret Lyon in an action concerning the maintenance and property of her son James Rynd, son of James Rynd of Broxmouth. Margaret was pursuing David Rynd, tutor and intromettor with James’s blenchferme lands. Sir Alexander appeared on Margaret’s behalf, and the Lords ordered that sufficient rents and profits from James’s lands be paid for his maintenance until he reached seven years of age.
This 1503 appearance is particularly significant because Margaret Lyon is later explicitly identified as Margaret Lyone, Lady Guthrie, in the 1518 marriage contract of her daughter Elizabeth Guthrie and John Ogilvy. The 1503 record therefore provides contemporary evidence of Sir Alexander’s legal association with Margaret before the later marriage evidence.
Cross-Source Evidence
The 1474 sasine provides the critical documentary link between Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie, knight, and the later Sir Alexander.
The wording identifying Alexander as “son and heir” of the deceased David Guthrie establishes the father-son relationship and explains the subsequent succession of Alexander to the Guthrie estate.
The chronology is consistent:
Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie, knight
↓
Alexander Guthrie, son and heir — documented 23 August 1474
↓
Sir Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk, knight / Laird of Guthrie — documented 1496–1503
The repeated identification of Alexander as “of that Ilk” and, in 1500–01, as “Laird of Guthrie,” establishes him as the principal holder of the Guthrie estate during this period.
His extensive involvement in litigation concerning Eastertoun and Kirktoun of Guthrie demonstrates direct control over or responsibility for significant portions of the Guthrie lands.
His legal activities also demonstrate a broad network extending beyond the immediate Guthrie family, including the Dempsters of Auchterless, Maule family of Panmure, Durhams, Rossys, Scrymgeours, and Rynd family.
The appearance of Mr Malcolm Guthrie as Sir Alexander’s procurator in 1501 establishes another Guthrie operating within his legal network, although the relationship between Malcolm and Sir Alexander is not established by this record alone.
The 1503 appearance as procurator for Margaret Lyon is particularly important genealogically. Margaret had been documented as the widow of James Rynd in the earlier proceedings. By 1518 she was explicitly Margaret Lyone, Lady Guthrie, establishing a Guthrie–Lyon marriage. The Acts therefore place Sir Alexander in a documented legal relationship with Margaret in 1503, between her first husband’s death and the later marriage evidence.
Public Affairs Evidence
The later Acts of the Lords of Council in Public Affairs contain two references to men named Alexander Guthrie that require careful treatment.
On 15 January 1538, Alexander Guthrie of Kyncaldrum was in ward in Edinburgh Castle, and David Guthrie of that Ilk and John Guthrie of Ballnabreich became cautioners for him. The required caution was under a penalty of 5,000 merks.
The territorial designation “of Kyncaldrum” distinguishes this Alexander from the fifteenth- and early-sixteenth-century Sir Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk. He should therefore be treated as a later and separate Alexander Guthrie.
On 4 February 1549, an Alexander Guthrie appears without a territorial designation as one of the co-obligants for half of a 2,000-merks tocher in the marriage arrangement of Thomas, Master of Erskine, and Margaret Fleming. The other co-obligants were Robert Carnegie of Kinnaird and Finlay Campbell of Corswell.
Because the 1549 Alexander is not territorially identified, he cannot presently be securely identified with Alexander Guthrie of Kyncaldrum or another known Alexander Guthrie.
Possible identification — unconfirmed: The 1549 Alexander is retained here as a possible but unconfirmed match to the Guthrie family represented by Sir Alexander, but there is currently no evidence establishing that he is the same individual. The chronological gap alone makes direct identification impossible, and he may represent another later generation or branch of the Guthrie family.
Theories & Possibilities
The 1474 sasine substantially resolves one important question concerning Sir Alexander’s ancestry: his father was Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie, knight.
The evidence also establishes a clear succession from Sir David to Alexander and then the appearance of Alexander as Laird of Guthrie in the Acts of the Lords of Council.
Sir Alexander was clearly a substantial landholder and prominent member of the Guthrie of that Ilk family. His legal activities demonstrate responsibility for the estate’s lands, mills, leases, warranties, and financial obligations.
His role as procurator for Margaret Lyon adds an important dimension to his family network. The evidence supports the existence of a Guthrie–Lyon marriage by 1518 and places Sir Alexander in Margaret’s legal affairs in 1503. The exact date of their marriage remains unknown, but the presently documented window is after Margaret’s appearance as a widow and before Sir Alexander’s death at Flodden in September 1513.
The record does not by itself establish the parentage of Margaret Lyon’s husband, but the identification of Sir Alexander as her procurator is important cumulative evidence when considered with the later Margaret Lyone, Lady Guthriedesignation.
Genealogical Significance
Sir Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk is one of the most important Guthrie individuals represented in the Acts.
The combined evidence now establishes:
- Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie, knight, as Sir Alexander’s father;
- Alexander’s status as son and heir by 23 August 1474;
- Sir Alexander’s later status as Laird of Guthrie;
- his extensive legal involvement from 1496 through 1503;
- his control over or responsibility for Guthrie, Eastertoun, and associated mill lands;
- his role as curator for Sir Thomas Maule of Panmure;
- his legal association with the Dempster, Maule, Durham, Rossy, Scrymgeour, and Rynd families;
- his use of Mr Malcolm Guthrie as a procurator;
- and his documented role as procurator for Margaret Lyon in 1503.
The 1474 sasine is particularly important because it provides a primary-source genealogical anchor that does not depend upon later traditional pedigrees.
Research Priorities
Further research should focus on:
- Establishing whether the documented Jonete, wife of Sir David and mother of Sir Alexander, can be independently identified with the traditionally named Janet Dundas.
- locating additional records concerning Alexander’s succession after his father’s death;
- tracing the Eastertoun and Kirktoun of Guthrie titles and divisions;
- investigating the relationship between Sir Alexander and Mr Malcolm Guthrie;
- identifying additional records connecting Sir Alexander and Margaret Lyon between 1503 and 1513;
- locating the 1518 marriage contract of Elizabeth Guthrie and John Ogilvy and extracting all references to Margaret and Sir Alexander;
- investigating the circumstances of Sir Alexander’s death at Flodden in September 1513;
- and systematically examining GD188/1/1, Writs of the Lands of Guthrie, for additional succession and property records.
The 1538 Alexander Guthrie of Kyncaldrum should be investigated as a separate later individual.
The 1549 Alexander Guthrie should remain flagged as an unconfirmed possible identification until a territorial designation, family connection, or intervening record establishes his identity.
Current Assessment
Identity: Documented — Sir Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk, knight.
Father: Documented — Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie, knight, identified as Alexander’s father in the 23 August 1474 sasine.
Mother: Unresolved.
Status: Documented — Laird of Guthrie.
Succession: Documented — Alexander was recognized as son and heir of Sir David Guthrie in 1474.
Principal geographic association: Guthrie, Angus/Forfarshire.
Landholding: Documented — Guthrie, Eastertoun of Guthrie, associated mill and mill lands, and other property interests.
Legal activity: Extensive and repeatedly documented, 1496–1503.
Marriage to Margaret Lyon: Strongly supported by cumulative evidence, but exact marriage date unresolved.
Role as Margaret Lyon’s procurator: Documented — 4 February 1503.
Relationship to Mr Malcolm Guthrie: Possible but unresolved.
Alexander Guthrie of Kyncaldrum, 1538: Separate later individual.
Alexander Guthrie, 1549 marriage obligation: Possible but unconfirmed match; no territorial designation or other identifying evidence currently establishes his identity.
Death: Traditionally/documentarily associated with Flodden, September 1513.