Facts from the Records

Andreas Guthry is the earliest Guthrie presently identified in the first eight volumes of the Aberdeen Council Registers.

In 1406, Andreas appears among the men selected to proceed against caterans or raiders threatening the region. The entry provides little additional information about him, but establishes that a man named Andreas Guthry was a member of the Aberdeen community and was considered among those who could be called upon for communal military action.

Theories & Possibilities

At present, there is insufficient evidence to identify Andreas with a particular Guthrie family, estate, or later-known Guthrie.

The name Andreas/Andrew Guthrie occurs in later records, but the chronological gap and lack of identifying information make a specific connection speculative.

Identification: Unidentified

Research Suggestions

Look for recurring associates who might connect Andreas with a particular family or territorial group.

Search contemporary records for Andreas/Andrew Guthry, Guthre, Guthery, Guthray, and similar forms between approximately 1390 and 1430.

Examine Aberdeen records for additional appearances that might establish his occupation, residence, associates, or family.

Compare any early Angus or Forfarshire Guthries named Andreas or Andrew with the Aberdeen evidence.

Aberdeen Council Register, Volume 4, p. 8 — 3 April 1434

Facts from the Records

David de Guthery appears in an Aberdeen court proceeding involving the Flemish merchant Rumbaldus.

David acted as prelocutor on Rumbaldus’s behalf, speaking for him in the legal proceedings and requesting a legal day in which the matter could be answered.

The entry therefore establishes a David de Guthery active in Aberdeen in 1434 who was sufficiently knowledgeable, trusted, or professionally situated to act in a legal capacity for another party.

Theories & Possibilities

Strong possibility: David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Guthrie, later a prominent royal official.

This is one of the most intriguing identifications in the Aberdeen material.

A David de Guthry appears as a bailie of Dundee in 1441, followed by another appearance as David Guthre, bailie of Dundee, in 1456. By 1457, David Guthrie of Kincaldrum appears as Sheriff of Forfarshire. He subsequently held a succession of important royal offices, including Treasurer, Comptroller, Clerk Register, and Lord Justice General. The Dictionary of National Biography identifies this David as the son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum.

The Aberdeen appearance in 1434 is compatible with that later career. In particular, his role as prelocutor is interesting in light of the legal and administrative nature of his subsequent career.

The chronological sequence is suggestive:

David de Guthery — Aberdeen, 1434
→ David de Guthry — Dundee, 1441
→ David Guthre — Dundee, 1456
→ David Guthrie of Kincaldrum — Sheriff of Forfarshire, 1457
→ Master/Sir David Guthrie — senior royal offices

The evidence does not yet provide the direct documentary link needed to call these appearances certain. Nevertheless, the combination of name, chronology, geography, civic office, and later career makes the identification considerably stronger than a generic surname match.

Identification: Strongly probable, but not proven.

Research Suggestions

Look for evidence that could establish whether this David was already associated with the Guthrie/Kincaldrum family before his emergence as a major royal official.

Examine the 1441 Dundee appearance alongside the 1434 Aberdeen record for associates or other identifying details.

Compare the 1456 Dundee bailie with the 1457 Sheriff of Forfarshire.

Search Great Seal, Privy Seal, Exchequer, and parliamentary records for David Guthrie before 1457.

Search for the earliest known appearance of David explicitly styled of Kincaldrum.

Investigate the education and legal career traditionally attributed to David, including the Cologne connection.

Search for additional appearances of David de Guthery/de Guthry in the 1430s and 1440s.

Aberdeen Council Register, Volume 5, p. 33 — c. 1430s

Facts from the Records

Master Alexander Guthery appears in an Aberdeen court proceeding involving William Scherar and Andrew Alaneson.

The matter was delayed until the arrival of Master Alexander, after which the provost and bailies were to bring the case to a conclusion.

The designation Master indicates that Alexander possessed a status or education sufficient for the title to be used in the record. His expected participation was sufficiently important that the court was willing to await his arrival.

Theories & Possibilities

Strong research possibility: Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum, father of David Guthrie.

This possibility deserves particular attention because the early origins of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum remain poorly documented.

Later records identify David Guthrie—the prominent royal official—as the son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum. However, the surviving evidence presently available does not give us a satisfactory account of where Alexander came from before he appears as a man associated with Kincaldrum.

The Aberdeen appearance therefore presents an intriguing possibility: could Master Alexander Guthery of the 1430s be an early appearance of the Alexander who later becomes Alexander of Kincaldrum?

The chronology is plausible. It is also noteworthy that both Alexander and the later David are associated with educated, legal, and administrative activity. However, that is circumstantial evidence, not proof.

A second possibility is that this is another contemporary Alexander Guthrie, perhaps the Master Alexander de Guthry found in other records associated with Forfarshire. That identification should remain open rather than being substituted for the Kincaldrum hypothesis without further evidence.

Identification: Possible — potentially Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum, father of David Guthrie; alternative identifications remain possible.

Research Suggestions

• Establish the earliest securely dated appearance of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum.
• Search for Alexander Guthrie in records between approximately 1420 and 1460, using variant spellings.
• Search specifically for an Alexander who is styled Master before being styled of Kincaldrum.
• Examine the earliest documents concerning the lands of Kincaldrum, including the 1446 material and subsequent charters.
• Determine whether an Alexander Guthrie appears in Dundee, Aberdeen, Forfar, Brechin, or other Angus-area records during the same period.
• Identify the associates of Master Alexander Guthery in the Aberdeen case and compare them with associates of Alexander of Kincaldrum.
• Search for evidence concerning Marjory/Mary Guthrie, who appears in later Kincaldrum documentation, and determine whether her earlier associations can illuminate Alexander’s origins.
• Treat the possible identification with the Forfar Master Alexander as a hypothesis to test rather than an established fact.

Aberdeen Council Register, Volume 5, p. 740

Facts from the Records

The Aberdeen Register refers to Magistri Dauid guthery in connection with the office of treasurer (thesaurarius).

The entry therefore establishes a Master David Guthery occupying or being associated with a treasury-related office.

Theories & Possibilities

The title immediately raises the possibility of a connection with the prominent David Guthrie of Guthrie and Kincaldrum, who became Lord Treasurer of Scotland in 1461 and subsequently held several senior royal offices.

However, the Aberdeen entry should not automatically be assigned to him. The date and precise context of the entry need to be considered carefully, and “treasurer” does not by itself establish that the reference is to the royal Treasurer.

This could therefore represent:

1. the later Sir David Guthrie;
2. another David Guthery associated with a treasury or financial office; or
3. an individual whose relationship to the better-known Guthrie family has not yet been established.

Identification: Possible; presently unresolved.

Research Suggestions

• Examine the complete Aberdeen entry surrounding p. 740 for the identity of the “supreme lord” and the precise meaning of thesaurarius.
• Establish the exact date represented by the entry.
• Compare the terminology with other Aberdeen and Scottish records where the same office is described.
• Search Exchequer and royal records for David Guthrie during the relevant period.
• Compare the entry with the documented career of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum.
• Search for other David Guthery/David Guthre references in Aberdeen before and after this entry.

Aberdeen Council Register, Volume 6, pp. 649 and 682 — 1480–1481

Facts from the Records

Mariote Guthery appears in two related Aberdeen court proceedings and can reasonably be treated as the same woman.

On 20 September 1480, Mariote pursued recovery of goods that had been bequeathed to her by the deceased Christiana Preston and were being held by Nicholas Baxter. Sir Alan de Camera, chaplain, appeared on Mariote’s behalf.

On 2 April 1481, Mariota returned to pursue the matter and sought delivery of additional property belonging to her. The proceedings identify a substantial and varied collection of household goods, including furnishings, clothing, bedding, cooking equipment, and other personal possessions.

The two entries establish that Mariote was actively pursuing a claim to inherited property through the Aberdeen burgh court and had access to representation by an ecclesiastical professional.

The records do not identify Mariote’s father, mother, husband, children, or territorial residence.

Theories & Possibilities

No established identification has yet been found in the known Guthrie pedigrees.

Mariote does not presently appear in the established Guthrie genealogical material in a way that allows her to be assigned confidently to a particular Guthrie family or couple. She should therefore not be added to the main Guthrie family tree at this stage.

There is also no current evidence connecting her with one of the better-known Guthrie territorial families of the fifteenth century.

The fact that she received property from Christiana Preston is potentially much more significant than the Guthrie surname alone. The nature and quantity of the property, together with the fact that Mariote pursued the inheritance through the court over two separate appearances, suggest that her relationship with Christiana may provide the key to identifying her.

Possible relationships between Mariote and Christiana could include a blood relationship, relationship through marriage, or another personal or household connection. At present, none can be demonstrated.

Identification: Unidentified.

Potential red herring: The recurrence of the female name Mariote/Mariota among later Guthrie women should not be used to connect this woman with individuals living a century later. The name is not sufficiently distinctive to establish identity.

Research Suggestions

1. Investigate Christiana Preston first.

Rather than searching only for Mariote Guthery, identify Christiana Preston and reconstruct her family and property connections.

Questions to pursue include:

• Who were Christiana Preston’s parents?
• Was she married, and if so, to whom?
• Did she have children or siblings?
• Who inherited her other property?
• Why was Mariote Guthery among the beneficiaries?
• Did Christiana have a Guthrie connection through birth or marriage?

2. Search Aberdeen testamentary and property records.

The inheritance claim may have generated additional records naming Mariote, Christiana, or other relatives. Look for wills, testaments, inventories, property transactions, and related burgh proceedings.

3. Search for Mariote under variant spellings.

Search:

• Mariote Guthery
• Mariota Guthery
• Mariote Guthre
• Mariota Guthre
• Mariote Guthrie
• Mariota Guthrie
• Mariot Guthery
• Mariot Guthre
• Mariot Guthrie

Female names and surnames can vary considerably in medieval and early modern records, so searches should not be limited to the spelling used by the Aberdeen editor.

4. Search for Mariote without the Guthrie surname.

If she subsequently married, later records may identify her by her married surname rather than Guthery/Guthrie. Searching the associated Preston family and the Aberdeen community may therefore be more productive than surname-only searches.

5. Investigate Nicholas Baxter.

Nicholas Baxter was holding the goods claimed by Mariote. Determining why he possessed them could provide an additional connection between Mariote and Christiana Preston.

6. Investigate Sir Alan de Camera.

The fact that a chaplain acted on Mariote’s behalf may provide clues concerning her social, familial, or institutional connections. Other records involving Sir Alan de Camera may identify the circumstances under which he represented her.

7. Search for additional Aberdeen appearances.

Mariote may appear in earlier or later Aberdeen records under a different spelling or, if she married, under another surname.

8. Compare with the wider Guthrie research collection.

Any unidentified fifteenth-century Guthrie woman associated with Aberdeen, Angus, or the northeast should be compared against this record before assuming that she is a separate individual.

Current Research Assessment

Mariote/Mariota Guthery remains an unplaced Guthrie woman.

At present, no reliable outside source has been located that identifies her as the daughter of a particular Guthrie or Guthrie couple. She should therefore remain outside the established family tree while being retained in an Unplaced/Unidentified Guthries research file.

Her two Aberdeen appearances make her more significant than an isolated surname occurrence, however. The inheritance from Christiana Preston provides a specific research pathway that may eventually reveal Mariote’s parentage, marriage, or relationship to another Guthrie family.

Research priority: Moderate–High

Most promising avenue: Reconstruct the family and property connections of Christiana Preston rather than beginning with Mariote’s Guthrie surname alone.

Aberdeen Council Register, Volume 7, p. 228 — 8 March 1488

Facts from the Records

On 8 March 1488, the Aberdeen Council Register refers to the “Lard of guthtre” in connection with a dispute involving a ten-shilling annual rent.

The Aberdeen authorities required that a sufficient discharge be obtained from the Laird of Guthre. The entry also describes the Laird in connection with the office of chamberlain for the time being.

The individual is not named in the Aberdeen entry. He is identified only by his territorial designation as the Laird of Guthre.

Theories & Possibilities

Strongly probable identification: Sir Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk.

The chronology of the Guthrie succession provides a strong basis for identifying the unnamed Laird of Guthre in 1488 as Sir Alexander Guthrie, son and heir of Sir David Guthrie of that Ilk.

Sir David Guthrie obtained a charter of the lands of Guthrie on 25 March 1465 (NRS GD188/1/1). He died between 18 May and 23 August 1474.

On 23 August 1474, an Instrument of Sasine records Alexander Guthrie as son and heir of the deceased David Guthre of Guthre, knight, in possession of the lands of Guthrie. The succession included the Baronies of Guthrie, Kincaldrum, and Lour.

Alexander therefore held the Guthrie barony by 1488 and was the individual who would naturally be described in the Aberdeen records simply as “the Laird of Guthre.”

The identification is further strengthened by the fact that Alexander remained head of the Guthrie family until his death at the Battle of Flodden on 9 September 1513.

Accordingly, the 1488 Aberdeen entry falls squarely within the documented period of Alexander’s tenure as laird of Guthrie.

Identification: Strongly probable — almost certainly Sir Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk.

Genealogical Significance

This entry is useful not simply because it identifies another appearance of Alexander, but because it provides evidence of the administrative role exercised by the Guthrie lairdship.

The Aberdeen record describes the Laird in connection with the administration of an annual rent and refers to him as the chamberlain for the time being. It therefore offers a glimpse of Alexander’s involvement in the management of property and revenues associated with his territorial position.

The entry also provides a useful chronological anchor for Alexander’s tenure:

23 August 1474 — Alexander succeeds his father, Sir David Guthrie, as heir to Guthrie, Kincaldrum, and Lour.

8 March 1488 — The Aberdeen Council Register refers to the Laird of Guthre, almost certainly Alexander.

9 September 1513 — Alexander dies at Flodden.

Important Genealogical Caution

Although Alexander’s identity as the likely 1488 Laird is relatively secure, his own family history remains considerably less secure than the simple succession from David Guthrie might suggest.

The chronology of Alexander’s life, his marriage or marriages, and the identification and chronology of his children present significant questions. These issues should not be resolved simply by assigning traditional genealogical relationships to him.

Consequently, this Aberdeen appearance should be used as evidence for Alexander’s tenure as Laird of Guthrie in 1488, but should not by itself be used to establish any particular marriage or child.

Research Suggestions

• Examine the original 1488 Aberdeen entry for any additional details concerning the rent, property, and chamberlainship.
• Compare the entry with other records naming Alexander Guthrie as Laird of Guthrie between 1474 and 1513.
• Search the Exchequer Rolls for Alexander’s activities and territorial designations.
• Search the Great Seal, Privy Seal, and Register of the Privy Council for Alexander Guthrie.
• Examine Sasines and other property records for Guthrie, Kincaldrum, and Lour during Alexander’s lifetime.
• Use the Aberdeen reference as an independent chronological marker when evaluating the disputed evidence concerning Alexander’s marriages and children.
• Compare Alexander’s known associates with those of his father, Sir David Guthrie, to identify possible family and political networks.
• Keep the succession evidence separate from later traditional pedigrees when reconstructing Alexander’s descendants.

Aberdeen Council Registers, Volume 7, p. 245; Volume 8, pp. 200, 287 — 1491–1504

Facts from the Records

Master David Guthre appears repeatedly in the Aberdeen Council Registers over a period of at least thirteen years, consistently identified with the office of Provost of Aberdeen.

26 March 1491 — Volume 7, p. 245

Master David Guthtre is identified as Provost of Aberdeen and appears as the first named witness to the public confirmation of a lease concerning fishing rights at Tulloche.

His appearance as a named witness places him among the senior civic figures participating in the formal authentication of Aberdeen’s legal and property transactions.

6 November 1500 — Volume 8, p. 287

Master David Guthtre again appears as Provost of Aberdeen and acts as an arbitrator in a dispute involving an inheritance.

His role demonstrates that his responsibilities extended beyond presiding over the burgh’s civic affairs. His judgment was sufficiently trusted that parties to a contested inheritance accepted his involvement in resolving their dispute.

3 April 1504 — Volume 8, p. 200

Master David Guthre is again identified as Provost.

In this dispute, the parties agree to suspend all legal proceedings until Master David’s return home. They intend to submit the matter to his ordinance and deliverance, and he is permitted to select additional persons to assist him in reaching a settlement.

This is particularly significant because the parties voluntarily defer their legal proceedings in order to obtain Master David’s judgment. It suggests considerable confidence in his authority and ability to resolve disputes.

What the Records Establish

Taken together, these entries establish that a Master David Guthre was Provost of Aberdeen over an extended period, from at least 1491 through 1504, and that he occupied a position of substantial civic authority.

The records associate him with:

• formal witnessing of burgh property transactions;
• administration of civic affairs as provost;
• arbitration of inheritance disputes;
• and voluntary settlement of disputes through his judgment.

His repeated role as arbitrator is particularly noteworthy. The Aberdeen records portray him not merely as an officeholder, but as a person whose judgment carried sufficient authority for disputants to entrust him with the settlement of contentious matters.

Theories & Possibilities

Strong possibility: Master David Guthre, Provost of Aberdeen, may be the same individual as David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and later Guthrie of that Ilk.

The Aberdeen records present a striking combination of characteristics. Master David Guthre is consistently styled “Master,” holds the important office of Provost of Aberdeen, and is repeatedly entrusted with matters requiring education, legal knowledge, judgment, and authority.

These characteristics are particularly noteworthy when considered alongside the contemporary David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, who later appears as David Guthrie of that Ilk. The latter is likewise associated with a level of education, legal sophistication, property administration, and authority that would be consistent with the Aberdeen provost.

The chronological, professional, and social fit therefore makes this more than a simple name-based possibility. It is a theory that merits serious investigation:

If correct, the Aberdeen records would provide an important window into David’s earlier career and could help explain the educated and legally capable character associated with the later David Guthrie.

Caution in Identification

The theory should nevertheless remain a strong possibility rather than an established identification until additional records provide a direct connection.

The Aberdeen entries do not call the provost “of Kincaldrum” or “of Guthrie,” and the records concerning David Guthrie of Kincaldrum do not, from the evidence presently assembled, explicitly identify him as the former Provost of Aberdeen.

The two identities therefore should not yet be merged as proven fact.

The appropriate working position is:

Master David Guthre, Provost of Aberdeen = possibly/probably David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, later Guthrie of that Ilk.

Research Suggestions

Seek evidence that supports the identification

Research should investigate whether the two men share the characteristics, chronology, relationships, and circumstances expected if they were the same person.

Particularly useful evidence would include:

• evidence of David Guthrie’s education or university attendance;
• evidence of legal, notarial, ecclesiastical, or other professional training;
• records demonstrating the legal knowledge and authority suggested by his career as provost and arbitrator;
• property or financial interests connecting Master David Guthre with Kincaldrum;
• appearances alongside known associates of David Guthrie of Kincaldrum;
• references placing the Aberdeen provost and the Kincaldrum David within the same geographic or social network;
• a document using both an Aberdeen civic designation and a Guthrie/Kincaldrum territorial designation.

Seek evidence that could rule out the identification

The investigation should not be limited to confirming evidence. Evidence that would demonstrate that the two men were different individuals should be sought just as deliberately.

Potential disqualifying evidence could include:

• a contemporary record establishing that the two men were in different places at the same time in circumstances that make one person impossible;
• a record identifying the Provost’s parentage or family in a manner incompatible with David of Kincaldrum;
• evidence that the Provost remained in Aberdeen during a period when David of Kincaldrum is demonstrably elsewhere under circumstances that cannot be reconciled;
• evidence that another individual can be positively established as David Guthrie of Kincaldrum during the relevant period;
• incompatible evidence concerning wives, children, estates, or close family relationships;
• a death, inheritance, succession, or other record demonstrating that two distinct Davids must have existed;
• any contemporary designation that positively distinguishes the two men.

The objective should therefore be to determine whether the two identities can be reconciled—not simply to accumulate evidence in favor of the theory.

Relationship to Other Guthries in the Registers

Master David Guthre should not automatically be merged with David de Guthery or any other contemporary David Guthrie appearing in the Aberdeen records.

The possibility that he is David Guthrie of Kincaldrum is a separate hypothesis requiring its own evidence.

Likewise, his possible identification with the Kincaldrum/Guthrie of that Ilk line should not be used to establish relationships among other early Guthries by assumption.

Current Research Assessment

Master David Guthre is one of the more significant Guthrie figures to emerge from the Aberdeen Council Registers.

The records document an educated and influential Aberdeen civic official who served as Provost over at least thirteen years and was repeatedly entrusted with arbitration and the settlement of disputes.

The combination of his title, education implied by “Master,” civic position, legal authority, and chronological setting creates a strong and intriguing possibility that he was the same David Guthrie who appears as David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and later Guthrie of that Ilk.

That identification remains unproven.

For now:

Identification as Master David Guthre, Provost of Aberdeen: Secure.

Identification as David Guthrie of Kincaldrum / later Guthrie of that Ilk: Strong possibility; unproven.

Research objective: Seek both confirming and disconfirming evidence.

Research priority: High.

Aberdeen Council Register, Volume 7, p. 837 — c. 1497–1498

Facts from the Records

Robertus Guthray was received as a free burgess of Aberdeen.

The entry states:

The record states that Robert Guthray was received as a free burgess, that he was to pay 20 shillings toward the fabric of the church, and that he had taken the customary oath.

The entry does not identify his father, mother, wife, occupation, place of origin, territorial designation, or sponsoring burgess.

The admission establishes that a man named Robert Guthray had obtained recognized burgess status in Aberdeen by approximately 1497–1498.

Theories & Possibilities

Possible to strongly probable identification: Robert Guthre of Lunan/Glensauchan.

A particularly important question is whether the Robert Guthray admitted as a burgess of Aberdeen is the same individual who appears elsewhere in the Aberdeen Council Registers as Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan.

The possibility deserves serious consideration because the chronology and outside evidence create a coherent sequence.

1481 — A Robert Guthre of Glensalch/Glensauch appears in a sasine relating to the lands of Glensauch in Kincardineshire.

c. 1497–1498 — Robert Guthray is admitted as a free burgess of Aberdeen.

1504/1505 — A Robert Guthre of Glensauch appears in the Register of the Privy Seal in connection with royal protection and permission to undertake a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela.

1507–1508 — Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan appears repeatedly in the Aberdeen Council Registers in connection with the inheritance and legal affairs of Isabel Buchan.

The geographic designations are also significant. Lounan/Lunan is in Angus, while Glensauch/Glensauchan (modern Glensaugh) is in the Mearns, historically Kincardineshire. Neither is Aberdeen. The fact that the same man could be associated with landed interests in Angus and Kincardineshire while also holding burgess status in Aberdeen is therefore quite plausible and does not create an obvious geographic contradiction.

The Aberdeen burgess entry may consequently provide evidence that the landed Robert Guthre had a recognized civic connection with Aberdeen several years before the better-documented litigation of 1507–1508.

There is currently no direct statement in the burgess entry identifying him as “of Lounan” or “of Glensauchan,” so the identification cannot yet be regarded as proven. Nevertheless, the combination of name, chronology, geographical connections, landed status, and repeated appearances in contemporary records makes the possibility considerably stronger than a simple name match.

Current assessment: Strongly possible; potentially probable, but not yet proven.

Genealogical Significance

If the identification is eventually demonstrated, this entry would materially expand the known biography of Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan.

It would establish that the man who later appears in substantial property and inheritance litigation in Aberdeen was already a recognized burgess of Aberdeen by approximately 1497–1498.

That would provide an important link between:

• a Guthrie with landed interests in Angus;
• a Guthrie associated with Glensauch/Glensauchan in the Mearns;
• and an individual with an established civic status in Aberdeen.

It would also help explain why Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan appears so prominently in Aberdeen legal affairs in 1507–1508.

Geographic Note

The place-name Glensauch/Glensauchan should not be confused with Aberdeen.

It refers to Glensaugh, historically in Kincardineshire (the Mearns). The modern Glensaugh area lies in the parish of Fordoun.

Thus the records potentially trace one individual across three significant areas:

Lunan — Angus
Glensauch/Glensauchan — Kincardineshire/Mearns
Aberdeen — burgh and legal/civic activity

This geographic pattern is worth investigating rather than treating the different territorial designations as evidence for different men.

Research Suggestions

1. Determine whether the burgess Robert Guthray and Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan are the same man.

Search records immediately before and after the 1497–1498 admission for either Robert’s name, looking particularly for a territorial designation.

2. Examine Aberdeen records outside the eight Council Register volumes.

Look for Robert Guthray/Guthre/Guthrie in property, legal, ecclesiastical, and financial records that might identify him more fully.

3. Compare the 1481 Glensauch sasine.

Determine exactly how the Robert Guthre of Glensauch in the 1481 record is described and whether the associated parties provide clues connecting him to the later Aberdeen Robert.

4. Compare the 1504/1505 Privy Seal record.

The Robert Guthre of Glensauch receiving royal protection for his pilgrimage is particularly valuable because it falls between the burgess admission and the 1507 Aberdeen litigation.

5. Investigate the Lunan connection.

Determine when Robert first appears as of Lounan/Lunan and whether the Lunan designation represents an inherited estate, a temporary interest, a family connection, or another form of association.

6. Investigate Glensauch/Glensauchan.

Establish the succession to the lands of Glensauch and determine whether the Robert Guthre associated with them can be connected genealogically to the Guthries of Lunan or other known Guthrie families.

7. Search for family relationships.

Look for evidence of Robert’s wife, children, parents, siblings, or other close associates. A single document naming one of these relationships could resolve the identity question.

8. Compare associates.

The people appearing alongside Robert in the 1481, 1504/05, 1497/98, and 1507–08 records may provide a stronger identification than the name alone.

Current Research Assessment

Robert Guthray should not yet be placed in the main Guthrie family tree as a separate unidentified Aberdeen Guthrie without noting this possibility.

The most useful working hypothesis is that the burgess Robert Guthray of Aberdeen may be the same individual as Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan, already documented in other contemporary records.

The evidence is not conclusive, but the chronology is unusually favorable:

1481 — Robert Guthre of Glensauch
c. 1497–1498 — Robert Guthray, burgess of Aberdeen
1504/1505 — Robert Guthre of Glensauch
1507–1508 — Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan

Until a document directly connects the identities, the identification should remain a strong research hypothesis rather than an established fact.

Research priority: High

Aberdeen Council Register, Volume 8, pp. 687–703, 828, 910–911 — 1507–1508

Facts from the Records

Robert Guthre is one of the most extensively documented Guthries in the first eight volumes of the Aberdeen Council Registers.

On 30 April 1507, he appears as Robert Guthre of Lovnan (Lounan/Lunan) in connection with royal letters concerning Isabel Buchan, daughter and heir of the deceased William Buchan.

Robert was required to answer the royal letters before the Aberdeen authorities. On the same day, he appeared publicly with William Fraser of Durris and offered himself to the law. An officer was instructed to make public inquiry as to whether anyone had a complaint against them. No complainant appeared, and a formal instrument was made recording the proceedings.

Robert subsequently became involved in extended litigation concerning Isabel Buchan’s inheritance. He pursued an action concerning her lands and goods and appointed Andrew Fif as his procurator.

During May and June 1507, the Aberdeen authorities repeatedly dealt with questions concerning Isabel’s age and whether she had passed out of tutory. Within these proceedings, Robert is described variously as of Lounan and of Glensauchan.

The recurrence of these two territorial designations within the same continuing litigation provides strong internal evidence that Robert Guthre of Lounan and Robert Guthre of Glensauchan were the same individual.

In May 1508, Robert is explicitly described as factor to Isabel Buchan. The court released her annual rents and mails to him after he produced evidence that she was out of tutory.

The dispute eventually attracted royal intervention. A royal letter of August 1508 records accusations that Robert Guthre and his associates had improperly removed Isabel from the custody of the Colps before she reached lawful age and had interfered with her rents. The accusation should not be treated as a judicial finding of wrongdoing.

Territorial Identifications

Lounan/Lunan refers to Lunan in Angus.

Glensauchan/Glensauch, represented today by Glensaugh, was in the Mearns, historically Kincardineshire.

Robert’s use of both designations is therefore particularly interesting. The Aberdeen evidence demonstrates that the two names were associated with the same individual, but it does not by itself explain the precise nature of Robert’s interests in either locality.

The two territorial associations should be investigated independently rather than assuming that one represents a simple alternate name for the other.

Theories & Possibilities

Strong identification: Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan is a single identifiable historical individual.

The internal Aberdeen evidence is strong because the two territorial descriptions occur within the same sequence of litigation concerning Isabel Buchan.

There is also substantial reason to investigate whether this is the same Robert Guthre of Glensauch who appears in other contemporary records, including an earlier record concerning the lands of Glensauch and a later Register of the Privy Seal entry concerning a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela.

If the burgess entry from approximately 1497–1498 is also eventually demonstrated to refer to this Robert, it would provide an additional connection between Robert and Aberdeen before the 1507 litigation.

What We Do Not Know

It is important not to infer a relationship between Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan and the Guthries of Guthrie simply because both used the surname Guthrie.

At present, there is no known or proven genealogical connection between the Guthries of Lunan and the Guthries of Guthrie.

The two groups could ultimately prove to descend from a common earlier Guthrie ancestor, but they could equally represent separate branches of a broader Guthrie kin group, or independent families whose ancestors adopted the same location-based surname.

Likewise, the presence of Robert in Lunan should not be treated as evidence that the Lunan Guthries were a cadet branch of the Guthries of Guthrie.

The same caution applies to the Guthries of that Ilk. A correlation between the Guthries of Guthrie and the Guthries of Lunan remains premature without documentary or sufficiently strong genetic evidence.

DNA Considerations

The available Guthrie DNA evidence does not presently resolve the relationship.

The Guthrie DNA Project’s Y-DNA database does not currently contain a documented Lunan Guthrie line that would provide a direct paternal comparison with the Guthries of Guthrie.

The genetic representation associated with Margaret Guthrie of Lunan, wife of Sir Robert Carnegie of Kinnaird, is through her descendants and therefore does not provide the equivalent of a documented direct male-line Lunan Guthrie for Y-DNA comparison.

Autosomal DNA evidence has likewise not produced sufficient data for a triangulated connection at the considerable genetic distance involved.

Consequently, DNA should presently be regarded as insufficient to establish or reject a relationship between the Guthries of Lunan and the Guthries of Guthrie.

Research Suggestions

1. Establish Robert’s relationship to Glensauch.

Trace the lands of Glensauch/Glensauchan and identify the earliest and latest records naming Robert Guthre in connection with them.

2. Establish the nature of the Lunan connection.

Determine whether Robert actually held lands at Lunan, inherited them, was a tenant or feuar, or used the designation for another reason.

3. Investigate the 1481 Glensauch record.

Compare the Robert Guthre of Glensauch in the earlier sasine with the Robert of Lounan/Glensauchan in 1507–1508.

4. Investigate the c.1497–1498 Aberdeen burgess.

Determine whether Robert Guthray, admitted as a free burgess of Aberdeen, can be demonstrated to be this same Robert. The chronology makes the identification worth pursuing, but it remains unproven.

5. Search the Privy Seal and Exchequer records.

The appearances of Robert Guthre of Glensauch in these records may provide additional information concerning his property, associates, royal service, and family.

6. Identify Robert’s immediate family.

Search for his wife, children, parents, siblings, and close associates. A documented relationship would provide much stronger evidence for placing him within the wider Guthrie family.

7. Resist premature merging of Guthrie families.

When searching for Robert’s origins, compare the evidence against Guthries of Guthrie, Lunan, Glensauch, and other territorial groups without assuming that any one group is the parent family.

Current Research Assessment

Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan is a well-documented late-fifteenth/early-sixteenth-century Guthrie, but his position within the broader Guthrie family remains unresolved.

The Aberdeen Registers establish a substantial landed and legal presence, while the combination of the Lounan and Glensauchan designations provides a particularly valuable avenue for further research.

The most important unresolved questions are:

• Where did Robert’s family originate?
• How did he acquire or become associated with Lunan?
• How did he acquire or become associated with Glensauch?
• Was the c.1497–1498 Aberdeen burgess Robert Guthray the same man?
• Who were Robert’s parents, wife, and children?
• Can his family be connected to any other documented Guthrie family?

At present, no documentary or genetic evidence justifies placing Robert within the Guthries of Guthrie or any other established Guthrie lineage.

Identification as Robert Guthre of Lounan/Glensauchan: Strong.

Identification of his wider Guthrie ancestry: Unknown.

Research priority: High.