Guthrie of Guthrie
Kincaldrum Comes First
The documented landed history of this family begins at Kincaldrum, long before Sir David Guthrie acquired the lands of Guthrie. The later Guthries of Guthrie therefore emerge from a family already established at Kincaldrum.
The Succession Is Not a Pedigree
The holders of Guthrie did not form an uninterrupted father-to-son line of inherited lands and title. Brothers, collateral relatives, purchases, settlements, and other transfers all shaped the succession.
The Story Eventually Divides
Family descent, possession of the estate, the baronial dignity, and representation as Guthrie of Guthrie did not always pass together.
Beginnings
The history of the Guthries of Guthrie looks deceptively simple when reduced to a numbered list of successive holders. One Guthrie follows another across the centuries, creating the impression of an ancient estate handed neatly from father to son. The real family story is considerably more complicated — and much more interesting.
For the family followed in this profile, the documented landed story begins not at Guthrie, but at Kincaldrum, an Angus estate associated with the family before the lands of Guthrie came into their possession. From this Kincaldrum family came Sir David Guthrie, the prominent royal administrator whose acquisition of Guthrie brought the two landed identities together.
For a time, Kincaldrum and Guthrie travelled through the same family. They later divided between different descendants, crossed again through collateral branches, and were reshaped by sales, wadsets, resignations, marriage settlements, and other legal arrangements.
The succession to Guthrie is not
the same thing as the Guthrie family tree.
Sometimes the next holder was the previous holder’s son. At other points he was a grandson, brother, collateral kinsman, or member of another Guthrie branch. Some successors inherited; others acquired their interest through legal transfer. A person appearing next in the numbered succession of Guthrie of Guthrie was therefore not necessarily the son of the person who came before.
Traditional pedigrees add another layer to the story. They preserved relationships that have been repeated for generations, but surviving charters, sasines, marriage contracts, court records, testaments, and other contemporary evidence do not always support the family structure those pedigrees created. Some traditional connections remain sound. Others require qualification, and several important relationships have had to be reconsidered entirely.
This profile follows both histories together: the Guthrie family and the succession of the lands associated with Guthrie and Kincaldrum. Where those paths coincide, they are shown together. Where they divide, each is followed separately.
This is not intended as an account of the ultimate origin of the Guthrie surname. People bearing the name appear in medieval records before the Kincaldrum family can be reconstructed securely, and the relationships among those earlier Guthries remain a separate and more mysterious question. Here, the story begins where one particular family comes into clearer documentary focus.
Titles, Dignities & Styles
The principal members of this family appear in surviving records under several different descriptions. Because some of these terms have very different meanings today, this profile uses them carefully.
The numbered sequence — 1st of Guthrie, 2nd of Guthrie, 3rd of Guthrie, and so forth — is a modern genealogical convenience used on this profile to distinguish successive holders of Guthrie, particularly in a family with many men named Alexander, David, William, and John. These numbers were not historical titles or official contemporary designations. The men themselves appear in the records under styles such as “of Guthrie,” “of that Ilk,” “fiar of Guthrie,” or “younger of Guthrie.” The numbering should also not be mistaken for a father-to-son pedigree, since succession to the estate sometimes passed through brothers, collateral relatives, purchases, settlements, or other legal transfers.
For clarity, the main narrative normally identifies successive members as “of Guthrie” and retains their familiar numerical sequence. Where a contemporary record uses a more specific style — such as fiar, younger, laird, or proprietor — that wording is used when it helps explain the succession.
Kincaldrum Before Guthrie
That earlier generation matters. Traditional pedigrees tend to organize the family story around the later Barony of Guthrie, but contemporary evidence shows that the family already possessed a recognizable Kincaldrum identity before Sir David acquired Guthrie. Following the records in chronological order therefore begins with Kincaldrum and only later brings the two landed histories together.
Master Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum
An inquisition held at Brechin on 21 July 1450 included Magister Alexander de Guthre de Kyncaldrum among the jurors serving on the assize.
The territorial description is the important point. Whatever earlier appearances may belong to the same man, this record explicitly associates Master Alexander with Kincaldrum and provides the earliest securely verified territorial anchor presently used for this family.
Later reconstruction identifies this Alexander as the first documented generation of the Kincaldrum family from which Master David Guthrie, later Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie, emerged.
Source: Register of the Bishopric of Brechin , Appendix Cartae Originales XLII, pp. 79–80 — inquisition of 21 July 1450.
During the following decade the next generation comes into clearer view. On 6 February 1457, Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum is explicitly styled Sheriff of Forfar in an Arbroath Abbey instrument. Another record from the same year identifies James Guthrie as David’s brother. David therefore enters the documentary record as a member of an already established Kincaldrum family before his later acquisition of Guthrie.
Source: Arbroath Abbey Register, Volume II , pp. 95–97 — David of Kincaldrum, Sheriff of Forfar, 1457; pp. 92–93 — David and his brother James, 1457.
22 June 1465
The royal confirmation of 1465 preserves the charter granted by William de Ruthven to Master David Guthre of Kincaldrum and Jonete his wife.
The lands concerned were Petkarne, together with the superiority attached to them in Perthshire. The charter provided for David and Jonete and the lawful heirs of their marriage, with remainder to David’s lawful and nearer heirs.
The introductory clause of the royal confirmation describes David as a familiar cleric and treasurer of the king, showing that his Kincaldrum identity accompanied an increasingly important career in royal administration.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume 2 , Charter 834 — charter dated 24 May 1465; royal confirmation dated 22 June 1465.
The Kincaldrum Line Begins Earlier
Master Alexander is explicitly identified with Kincaldrum in 1450, before Sir David emerges as the next documented Kincaldrum generation.
Source: Brechin Register, 21 July 1450
David & Jonete Are Named Together
RMS 834 directly identifies Jonete as David’s wife and provides for the lawful heirs of their marriage.
Source: RMS II, no. 834
Royal Service Is Already Visible
David’s connection to the royal household and treasury belongs to his Kincaldrum phase, before Guthrie became his principal territorial identity.
Source: RMS II, no. 834
A date worth reading carefully: 24 May 1465 is the date of William de Ruthven’s charter to David and Jonete. 22 June 1465 is the date on which that charter was confirmed by the Crown.
The two dates therefore represent separate legal stages of the same transaction. The May charter records the grant of Petkarne; the June Great Seal entry records the Crown’s confirmation and preserves its terms.
The 1450 Brechin record is the earliest securely verified territorial evidence presently used for the Kincaldrum succession. Later historical accounts report an earlier 1446 grant of Kincaldrum to Master Alexander Guthrie and his wife Marjory, but the underlying instrument has not yet been independently located and examined. It therefore remains useful secondary evidence rather than the documentary starting point.
None of this should be treated as proof that the Guthrie surname originated at Kincaldrum, that Master Alexander was the first person to bear the name, or that every earlier medieval Guthrie belonged to this particular family. Those earlier origins remain a separate research question.
Why Kincaldrum Matters
Kincaldrum is more than a preliminary location mentioned before the “real” history begins. It is the first securely documented landed identity of the family followed here and becomes one of the recurring threads that helps explain the later succession.
After Kincaldrum and Guthrie came together in Sir David’s hands, the two landed interests did not remain permanently united in one simple father-to-son descent. Different descendants and collateral branches carried different parts of the family inheritance. Centuries later, a David Guthrie of Kincaldrum would again become central to the history of Guthrie when the estate changed hands by purchase rather than ordinary inheritance.
The Kincaldrum identity therefore belongs both at the beginning of the story and at one of its most important later turning points.
From Kincaldrum to Guthrie
Master David Guthrie emerged from this established Kincaldrum family and was explicitly styled of Kincaldrum while serving as Sheriff of Forfar in 1457. His career then carried him into the highest levels of royal government under James III, including service as Treasurer, Comptroller, and in major administrative and judicial business.
During this rise in royal service, David acquired the landed identity that would dominate the family’s later history: Guthrie. From that point forward, Kincaldrum and Guthrie became intertwined — but they did not remain permanently inseparable.
It is with David’s acquisition of Guthrie that the numbered succession used on this profile as Guthrie of Guthrie begins.
Sources: Arbroath Abbey Register, Volume II , pp. 95–97; Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume II .
Next: Sir David Guthrie — of Kincaldrum, later 1st of Guthrie
Sir David Guthrie
David Guthrie did not begin life as a Guthrie of Guthrie. He emerged from the established Kincaldrum family headed by Master Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum. The father-son relationship is strongly supported in the reconstructed Kincaldrum succession. The traditional placement of Marjory / Mary Guthrie as David’s mother depends upon reported early Kincaldrum charter evidence whose underlying instruments remain an important research target.
David pursued higher education on the Continent. He matriculated at the University of Cologne in December 1443, completed the bachelor’s-stage determination there on 20 May 1445, and continued to Paris, where he became a Master of Arts in 1447. By 1457 he appears in Scottish records as Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, an established Angus landholder and Sheriff of Forfar.
Sources: Hermann Keussen, Die Matrikel der Universität Köln, vol. 1; H. Denifle & É. Chatelain, Auctarium Chartularii Universitatis Parisiensis, vol. 2; R. J. Lyall, “Scottish Students and Masters at the Universities of Cologne and Louvain in the Fifteenth Century.” See the Sir David Guthrie biography .
His rise was substantial. David served as Sheriff of Forfar, acted in the administration of the Bishopric of Brechin, and entered the highest levels of royal government under James III. By the 1460s he was serving as Treasurer of Scotland, with further periods of service as Comptroller, Clerk of the Register, and in major judicial and diplomatic business.
Sources: Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland ; Records of the Parliaments of Scotland ; Exchequer Rolls of Scotland.
25 March 1465/66 — The Lands of Guthrie
The decisive change came when James III granted Master David de Guthre of Kincaldrum and his heirs the lands of Guthrie in Forfarshire, following their resignation by David, Earl of Crawford and Lord Lindsay.
The Great Seal charter still identifies David by his earlier territorial home — of Kincaldrum — even as it places Guthrie in his hands. This is the moment when the two landed histories come together.
The date requires a small qualification. The printed Great Seal volume places the charter under 1466, while the editor notes that the underlying register gives 1465. Because the regnal year and written date cannot both be correct, this profile preserves the date as 25 March 1465/66.
From this point David increasingly appears in the records as of Guthrie or of that Ilk. The numbered succession used on this profile therefore begins with him as 1st of Guthrie.
Sources: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume II , Charter 868, p. 183; National Records of Scotland, GD188/1/1, Writs of the Lands and Barony of Guthrie.
Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum is documented as Sheriff of Forfar. An Arbroath Abbey instrument from the same year also expressly identifies James Guthrie as his brother.
Source: Arbroath Abbey Register, Volume II , pp. 92–97.
David is jointly appointed to hold the Iter Camerarie in the city of Brechin, showing his growing administrative importance before the acquisition of Guthrie.
Source: Register of the Bishopric of Brechin , Tabula no. 90; manuscript folio 90 / pp. 187–191.
His royal career expands through service as Treasurer and other high offices under James III.
Source: Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland , with supporting Exchequer and parliamentary records.
The Crown grants David the lands of Guthrie. Kincaldrum and Guthrie are now held within the same family.
Sources: RMS Volume II, Charter 868 ; NRS GD188/1/1.
David personally resigns the Barony of Guthrie and receives a new royal confirmation to himself and his heirs, strengthening the family’s legal title to the estate.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume II , confirmation dated 12 February 1470.
A major Great Seal transaction brings Sir David’s immediate family into sharper focus, identifying Alexander as his son and apparent heir, Malcolm as his natural son, and James Guthrie as David’s brother.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume II , 4 February 1472/73; related Balnabreich charter evidence.
Sir David was still alive on 7 July 1474, when he rendered an Exchequer account as David Guthrie of that Ilk, knight. By 23 August, Alexander was receiving sasine as son and heir of the deceased Sir David Guthrie.
Sources: Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, Volume VIII, p. 225 , 7 July 1474; NRS GD188/1/1, sasine of 23 August 1474.
Strongly Supported
Reported / Reconstructed
Sir David’s Marriages — Where the Sources Disagree
Sir David’s marriage history is one of the places where later pedigrees appear tidier than the surviving evidence. Early Panmure family material reports an earlier marriage to an unnamed woman of the Maule family of Panmure, commonly described as a sister of Sir Thomas Maule, followed by dissolution because the couple were related within prohibited degrees. No contemporary marriage or annulment record has yet been identified.
Contemporary records do securely identify a later wife named Jonete, and later charter evidence establishes her as the mother of Sir Alexander Guthrie. What those contemporary records do not presently provide is Jonete’s surname.
Early Maule Family Account
The older Panmure family narrative reports that Sir David’s Maule wife had already borne him several children before the marriage was challenged because of prohibited kinship.
Source: Registrum de Panmure and related Maule family material.
George Crawfurd, 1736
Crawfurd instead stated that David’s first marriage to a daughter of Sir Thomas Maule produced no issue, followed by a marriage to a daughter of the house of Dundas. The two accounts therefore directly conflict.
Source: George Crawfurd, The Lives and Characters of the Officers of the Crown and of the State in Scotland (1736).
The discrepancy is significant because it affects the reconstruction of Sir David’s children. The earlier Panmure account allows for children of the Maule marriage; Crawfurd’s later version rules them out entirely. At present there is insufficient primary evidence to assign any identified child confidently to that reported first marriage.
Panmure family material also identifies Elizabeth Guthrie’s mother as a daughter of the laird of Dundas and treats Elizabeth and Alexander as siblings. This provides substantial support for the longstanding identification of Jonete as Janet or Jonete Dundas, but it still falls short of a contemporary record actually giving Jonete that surname.
The safest reconstruction therefore keeps the evidence in separate layers: the reported Maule marriage is preserved as an early family tradition; the wife Jonete and her maternity of Sir Alexander are documented; and the surname Dundas remains strongly supported but not directly proved by the contemporary records presently identified.
Sources and discussion: BIO: Sir David Guthrie ; Registrum de Panmure; George Crawfurd (1736); contemporary Innerpeffer and Great Seal evidence.
Why Sir David Matters
Sir David is the hinge between two chapters of this family’s history. He belonged to an established Kincaldrum family, built a major career in royal service, and then acquired Guthrie, creating the landed identity that his descendants and later Guthrie successors would carry for centuries.
His story also introduces several themes that recur throughout this profile: property could be resigned and regranted during a holder’s lifetime, legal succession did not always wait for a death, and later pedigrees sometimes simplified family relationships that were considerably more complicated in the surviving records.
The First Succession at Guthrie
Sir David Guthrie, 1st of Guthrie
↓
Sir Alexander Guthrie, 2nd of Guthrie
This first transition is comparatively straightforward: Alexander was Sir David’s documented son and heir. A sasine of 23 August 1474 expressly identifies him as son and heir of the deceased Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie. The family history becomes considerably more complicated in Alexander’s generation.
Source: National Records of Scotland, GD188/1/1, Instrument of Sasine, 23 August 1474.
Sir Alexander Guthrie
When Sir David Guthrie died in 1474, his son Alexander Guthrie succeeded him. The father-son relationship is securely documented: a sasine of 23 August 1474 identifies Alexander as the son and heir of the deceased Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie.
Sir David’s wife Jonete is securely documented in contemporary evidence, but the specific primary record proving that she was Alexander’s mother should be identified before that maternity is stated here as an explicit documentary fact. The traditional identification of her as Janet Dundas remains a separate question.
Source: National Records of Scotland, GD188/1/1, Instrument of Sasine, 23 August 1474. The sasine directly establishes Sir David as Alexander’s father and Alexander as his heir.
Alexander inherited the landed world Sir David had created, but his generation marks the point at which the histories of Guthrie and Kincaldrum begin to divide. It also presents one of the most important pedigree problems on this page: determining which of Alexander’s children belonged to an earlier marriage and which, if any beyond Elizabeth, belonged to his later marriage to Margaret Lyon.
Alexander receives sasine as the son and heir of the deceased Sir David Guthrie. Sir David had still been alive on 7 July, narrowing his death to the period between those two dates.
Sources: NRS GD188/1/1, 23 August 1474; Exchequer Rolls of Scotland , Volume VIII, p. 225, 7 July 1474.
An unidentified woman styled domina de Guthre — Lady of Guthrie is named as a neighboring proprietor in Arbroath. She could have been Sir David’s widow Jonete or Sir Alexander’s unidentified earlier wife. The evidence does not identify her.
Source: Arbroath Abbey Register, Volume II , pp. 195–197, manuscript folio 223.
Margaret Lyon, daughter of Lord Glamis, is contracted in marriage to James Rynd, younger of Broxmouth. She therefore cannot have been Sir Alexander’s wife before this marriage.
Source: Glamis marriage-contract evidence summarized in the Guthrie Genealogy Margaret Lyon research and Acts of the Lords of Council source trail.
David Guthrie is already documented as Sir Alexander’s son and apparent heir. Because Margaret Lyon had only recently contracted her marriage to James Rynd, David must belong to an earlier marriage of Sir Alexander.
Source: Guthrie of Kincaldrum — Sir Alexander source trail .
Margaret Lyon appears in contemporary litigation as the widow of James Rynd. Her marriage to Sir Alexander therefore belongs after her Rynd marriage, rather than at the beginning of Alexander’s adult family life.
Source: Acts of the Lords of Council in Civil Causes , Volume II.
Sir Alexander acts as Margaret Lyon’s procurator in a case concerning the maintenance and lands of her son James Rynd. This is the earliest direct association presently identified between Alexander and Margaret, although the record does not yet call her his wife.
Source: Acts of the Lords of Council , 4 February 1503.
A Great Seal confirmation explicitly identifies Margaret Lyon as Sir Alexander’s spouse. The same settlement names his sons Alexander and George, but does not identify Margaret as the mother of either son.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume II , Charter 3259.
Sir Alexander and his eldest son and heir apparent, David Guthrie, were both killed at the Battle of Flodden.
Source: Arbroath Abbey Register research , including the Collegiate Church of Guthrie obit recording Sir Alexander’s death at Branxton on 9 September 1513.
Later evidence adds another son to Sir Alexander’s family. Alexander Guthrie, 4th of Kincaldrum, conveys Carret to Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german. Because Alexander 4th is independently documented as Sir Alexander’s son, Thomas must also have been Sir Alexander’s son and shared Alexander 4th’s mother.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume III , Charter 2085; underlying charter dated 29 January 1539, confirmed 10 February 1539/40.
Name presently unknown No contemporary record presently identified supplies her name. Her existence is required by the chronology because Sir Alexander’s son David was already his apparent heir while Margaret Lyon was still married to James Rynd. Sources: Margaret Lyon’s 1495 Rynd marriage contract; 1500/01 widowhood evidence; David’s documented status as Sir Alexander’s apparent heir by 1495/96.
Margaret Lyon Widow of James Rynd. Sir Alexander acted as her procurator in 1503, and the Great Seal settlement of 1508 explicitly identifies Margaret as Sir Alexander’s spouse. Sources: Acts of the Lords of Council , 1500/01 and 1503; RMS II, Charter 3259 , 1508.
David Guthrie, fiar of Guthrie Already Sir Alexander’s son and apparent heir by 7 February 1495/96. Because Margaret Lyon was then connected with her marriage to James Rynd, David belongs securely to Sir Alexander’s unidentified earlier marriage. He died with his father at Flodden in 1513 and therefore never became a numbered holder of Guthrie. Sources: Guthrie of Kincaldrum — Sir Alexander source trail ; Exchequer Rolls XIV, p. 545 for David as Andrew’s father.
Alexander Guthrie, 4th of Kincaldrum Explicitly identified as Sir Alexander’s son in the 1508 Great Seal charter and granted the lands and barony of Kincaldrum. The charter does not name his mother. The present reconstruction places him with Sir Alexander’s unidentified earlier wife, but that maternal placement remains chronological inference rather than an explicit statement in the charter. Source: RMS II, Charter 3259 , August 1508.
Thomas Guthrie Thomas does not appear in the 1508 Kincaldrum charter. His relationship emerges from later contemporary evidence. On 29 January 1539 Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum, conveyed Carret to Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german. Because Alexander 4th was a documented son of Sir Alexander, Thomas was likewise Sir Alexander’s son. “Brother-german” also establishes that Thomas and Alexander 4th shared both parents. Source: RMS III, Charter 2085 , charter of 29 January 1539; confirmation 10 February 1539/40.
George Guthrie Explicitly described as another son of Sir Alexander in the 1508 Kincaldrum settlement. The charter does not identify his mother. The present reconstruction places George with Sir Alexander’s earlier family, but that placement should remain distinguished from direct documentary proof. His traditional identification as George Guthrie of Kincreich likewise requires separate supporting evidence. Source: RMS II, Charter 3259 , August 1508.
Elizabeth Guthrie In 1518 Margaret Lyon, styled Lady Guthrie, participated in the marriage arrangements of her daughter Elizabeth Guthrie. This directly establishes Elizabeth as Margaret’s daughter and, read with Margaret’s documented marriage to Sir Alexander, strongly supports Elizabeth as their daughter. Source: 1518 marriage-contract evidence for Elizabeth Guthrie and John Ogilvy; discussed in Guthrie of Eassie & Hiltoun and the Margaret Lyon research.
Not a son of Sir Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon Older pedigrees place a John Guthrie of Hiltoun among the children of Sir Alexander and Margaret Lyon, but contemporary evidence rules this out. No son named John is listed in contemporary records associated with them. There is a John Guthrie of Hiltoun documented in 1505/06, before Alexander and Margaret could possibly have had an adult son. A later John associated with Eassie and Hiltoun was explicitly recognized in 1544 as the son and heir of David Guthrie of Eassie. Neither man can therefore be a son of Sir Alexander and Margaret Lyon. Sources: Guthrie of Eassie & Hiltoun ; contemporary Hiltoun evidence of 1505/06; 1544 heirship record identifying David Guthrie of Eassie as the later John’s father.
Sir Alexander’s Children — Tradition vs. Chronology
Traditional pedigrees have commonly presented Margaret Lyon as the mother of Sir Alexander’s principal children. The difficulty is not merely that a marriage contract between Alexander and Margaret has not survived. Contemporary chronology shows that at least part of Alexander’s family unquestionably predates his marriage to Margaret.
The Traditional Pedigree
Later genealogies place Margaret Lyon beside Sir Alexander and list sons such as David, Alexander, George and John beneath the couple, effectively presenting Margaret as mother of the entire family.
The Documentary Chronology
Margaret contracted marriage with James Rynd in 1495 and is documented as his widow in 1500/01. Yet David Guthrie was already Sir Alexander’s son and apparent heir by February 1495/96. David therefore cannot have been Margaret’s son.
Sir Alexander must therefore have had an earlier wife or family. No reliable contemporary source presently gives the name of that earlier wife, so this profile does not assign her an identity simply to complete the pedigree.
The remaining children require slightly different levels of caution. Alexander, 4th of Kincaldrum, is documented as Sir Alexander’s son in 1508 but his mother is not named. Thomas is later proved to be Alexander 4th’s brother-german and therefore shared his mother. The present reconstruction places both men in Sir Alexander’s earlier family.
George is also directly documented as Sir Alexander’s son in 1508, but his mother is not stated. He is presently placed with the earlier family as a working reconstruction rather than because the charter proves his maternity.
Elizabeth Guthrie is much more closely associated with Margaret Lyon. In 1518 Margaret, styled Lady Guthrie, participated in the marriage arrangements of her daughter Elizabeth Guthrie. That evidence strongly supports Elizabeth as a child of Sir Alexander’s later marriage to Margaret.
A much later armorial pedigree recorded in 1779 continued to place David beneath Sir Alexander and Margaret Lyon. It is valuable evidence for what the received family pedigree had become by the eighteenth century, but it cannot override the contemporary marriage chronology.
Sources: Guthrie of Kincaldrum — Generation 3 source trail ; Acts of the Lords of Council ; RMS II, Charter 3259; RMS III, Charter 2085; 1779 armorial pedigree discussed in the Eassie & Hiltoun research.
Why John of Eassie & Hiltoun Is No Longer Shown as Their Son
Older Guthrie pedigrees commonly place John Guthrie of Eassie and Hiltoun among the children of Sir Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon. The surviving contemporary evidence shows that this placement cannot be correct.
The first problem is chronology. Margaret Lyon was contracted in marriage to James Rynd in 1495 and is documented as his widow in 1500/01. Her first known direct association with Sir Alexander occurs in 1503, when he acted as her procurator, and she is explicitly identified as Sir Alexander’s spouse in 1508.
Yet a John Guthrie of Hiltoun is already documented in 1505/06. He was therefore an established adult essentially at the beginning of Alexander and Margaret’s documented relationship. He cannot have been their son.
The records later reveal another John connected with the Eassie and Hiltoun succession. In 1544, John Guthrie was formally recognized as the son and heir of the deceased David Guthrie of Eassie. Subsequent records connect this John with Hiltoun as well. His father is therefore identified directly, and he too cannot have been a son of Sir Alexander and Margaret Lyon.
What remains unresolved is the genealogical relationship between the Eassie/Hiltoun family and the Guthries of Guthrie. That relationship was real: in 1546 the main-line Alexander Guthrie described the later John of Eassie/Hiltoun as his “beloved kinsman.”
The surviving records therefore establish kinship between the two families, but they have not yet revealed the precise ancestral bridge. That is the open question — not the rejected placement of either John as a son of Sir Alexander and Margaret.
Sources: Guthrie of Eassie & Hiltoun ; contemporary Hiltoun evidence of 1505/06; 1544 heirship record identifying John as son and heir of David Guthrie of Eassie; NLS Saltoun Papers Ch.14167–14169 for the later Hiltoun/Eassie transactions and kinship context.
The Great Seal charter of August 1508 is the defining document for the separation of the two landed successions. Sir Alexander settled the lands and barony of Kincaldrum upon his son Alexander Guthrie, later 4th of Kincaldrum.
The charter explicitly identifies Margaret Lyon as Sir Alexander’s spouse and also names George Guthrie as another of Sir Alexander’s sons. Sir Alexander and Margaret retained reserved interests in the settlement. The charter does not identify Margaret as the mother of Alexander or George.
The family had reached an important turning point. The principal succession to Guthrie remained directed through Sir Alexander’s eldest son and apparent heir David, while another son received Kincaldrum during Sir Alexander’s lifetime.
The Guthrie Succession
David Guthrie, fiar, remained Sir Alexander’s eldest son and apparent heir. After David died with his father at Flodden, this succession continued through David’s son Andrew.
The Kincaldrum Line
Alexander Guthrie, another documented son of Sir Alexander, received Kincaldrum in 1508 and carried that estate into its separate collateral succession.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume II , Charter 3259, August 1508.
Flodden Changes the Succession
On 9 September 1513, Sir Alexander Guthrie and his eldest son and heir apparent, David Guthrie, were both killed at the Battle of Flodden.
David therefore never became the next numbered holder of Guthrie. The succession passed instead to the next generation through David’s son Andrew Guthrie, Sir Alexander’s grandson.
This is the first major example on the page of why a family tree and a succession list cannot be treated as the same thing. David belongs centrally in the pedigree, but because he died before succeeding his father, the numbered sequence moves directly from Sir Alexander to David’s son Andrew.
Sources: Arbroath Abbey / Collegiate Church evidence for Sir Alexander’s Flodden death; Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, Volume XIV, p. 545 for Andrew’s succession and the grandfather–father relationships.
A 1514 Record Calls Andrew Sir Alexander’s Son — Why?
A National Records of Scotland catalogue description dated 15 May 1514 describes Andrew Guthrie as “son and heir” of the deceased Sir Alexander Guthrie. Read literally and in isolation, that wording would make Andrew Sir Alexander’s son.
The wider contemporary evidence is considerably more specific. The Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, Volume XIV, p. 545, record the financial consequences of the succession after Flodden. In explaining why the barony of Guthrie had fallen into the king’s hands before sasine was given to Andrew, the account identifies the deaths of Andrew’s grandfather Sir Alexander Guthrie and his father David Guthrie.
That contemporary fiscal record therefore gives the relationship directly:
Sir Alexander Guthrie
↓
David Guthrie, apparent heir
↓
Andrew Guthrie
This also agrees with David’s documented position as Sir Alexander’s son and apparent heir before Flodden. The 1514 catalogue wording is therefore best treated as a compressed or erroneous archival abstract rather than as evidence sufficient to overturn the fuller contemporary relationship.
The original 1514 sasine should still be examined whenever possible, because doing so may reveal exactly how the wording became compressed in the modern catalogue description.
Sources: NRS catalogue description, 15 May 1514; Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, Volume XIV, p. 545 .
Why Sir Alexander Matters
Sir Alexander’s generation transforms the structure of the family. Under his father, Kincaldrum and Guthrie had come together. Under Alexander, the two landed successions begin moving along separate paths: David remained apparent heir to Guthrie while Alexander received Kincaldrum.
Later evidence has also expanded Sir Alexander’s documented family. In addition to David, Alexander and George, the 1539 brother-german evidence establishes Thomas Guthrie as another son.
His family demonstrates why traditional pedigree charts require continual comparison with contemporary records. Margaret Lyon was certainly his later wife, but she cannot have been the mother of his eldest son David and should not automatically be assigned as mother of every other child.
The traditional placement of John of Eassie and Hiltoun among Alexander and Margaret’s children is more than uncertain: it is contradicted by the chronology and by the documented parentage of the later John. The unresolved problem is instead the exact kinship linking the Eassie/Hiltoun family to the Guthries of Guthrie.
The Succession After Flodden
Sir Alexander Guthrie, 2nd of Guthrie
↓
David Guthrie, fiar
son and apparent heir • died before succeeding
↓
Andrew Guthrie, 3rd of Guthrie
The next numbered holder was therefore not Sir Alexander’s son but his grandson. Contemporary Exchequer evidence identifies Sir Alexander as Andrew’s grandfather and David as Andrew’s father.
Source: Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, Volume XIV, p. 545 , 1514 succession account.
From Flodden to a New Generation
The deaths of both Sir Alexander Guthrie and his eldest son David at Flodden in 1513 forced the Guthrie succession across a generation. David had been the heir apparent, but because he died before succeeding his father, the next holder was David’s son Andrew Guthrie.
Andrew is therefore numbered here as 3rd of Guthrie, although the genealogical path from the second to the third holder runs through David, who never himself became a numbered holder.
Genealogy and Succession
Sir Alexander Guthrie, 2nd of Guthrie
↓
David Guthrie, fiar
son and heir apparent — died at Flodden
↓
Andrew Guthrie, 3rd of Guthrie
Source: Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, Volume XIV , p. 545 — Andrew’s grandfather is identified as Sir Alexander Guthrie and his father as David Guthrie.
Andrew’s Wife — Christian Gardyne?
Traditional Guthrie pedigrees identify Andrew’s wife as Christian Gardyne. That identification is retained here as part of the received pedigree, but a contemporary record directly naming Christian as Andrew’s wife has not yet been identified in the evidence reviewed for this profile.
The surviving Great Seal evidence does, however, confirm that Andrew had a wife. When the lands and barony of Guthrie were granted to his son Alexander in 1543/44, the charter reserved Andrew’s liferent and also preserved the reasonable terce of Andrew’s spouse. Unfortunately, she is not named.
Later genealogical and local-history sources identify that wife as Christian Gardyne, but those later statements do not convert the traditional identification into contemporary proof.
Christian Gardyne should therefore continue to be treated as a traditional identification rather than a presently documented one. The relationship between Andrew and his son Alexander, by contrast, is explicitly established in contemporary Great Seal evidence.
Sources: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume III, Charter 2998 , 13 March 1543/44 — unnamed spouse’s terce; later traditional identification repeated in nineteenth-century Dundee and Guthrie family histories.
9 March 1538/39
A few years before settling the estate upon his heir, Andrew undertook an important reorganization of the Guthrie lands. After Andrew Guthrie of that Ilk personally resigned the lands and barony into the Crown’s hands, the King confirmed them back to Andrew and his heirs and assigns.
The grant included the tower, fortalice, manor, mills, multures, fishings, outsets, tenants and associated rights of patronage, and incorporated the holdings anew into the free barony of Guthrie in recognition of Andrew’s good service.
This 1538/39 regrant helps explain the next transaction. In 1543/44 Andrew again resigned the estate, this time so that the fee could pass to his son and apparent heir Alexander while Andrew retained his own liferent.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume III , Charter 1932, p. 432 — 9 March 1538/39.
13 March 1543/44
This charter provides one of the clearest links in the early Guthrie pedigree. It identifies Alexander Guthrie as the son and apparent heir of Andrew Guthrie of that Ilk.
The transaction also shows that the next stage of the succession began while Andrew was still alive. The lands were resigned and regranted to Alexander, while Andrew retained his liferent and provision was preserved for his wife’s reasonable terce.
Andrew remained active after this settlement. On 21 April 1545 he again appears as Andrew Guthrie of that Ilk, serving on an assize alongside members of several other Guthrie branches. The transfer of the fee to Alexander therefore did not mark Andrew’s death or disappearance from the records.
Sources: RMS Volume III, Charter 2998 , 13 March 1543/44; RMS III, Charter 3086, 21 April 1545.
Succession Did Not Always Begin with a Death
Modern readers naturally tend to imagine an estate passing from one generation to the next when the older proprietor dies. Scottish landholding could be more complicated.
Andrew could arrange for his son Alexander to receive the fee of the estate during Andrew’s lifetime while reserving his own right to use and enjoy the property. Alexander could therefore be the legal successor in the fee even though his father remained alive.
This distinction between fee and liferent will appear repeatedly in the history of the family.
Source: RMS III, Charter 2998 , which expressly grants the estate to Alexander while reserving Andrew’s liferent.
Alexander Guthrie’s generation is substantially better documented than that of his father. Contemporary records identify him as Andrew’s son and heir, show him dealing with the lands of the barony during Andrew’s lifetime, and later identify his wife and several of their children.
His wife was Isobel Wood. Her identity as Alexander’s spouse is documentary; the uncertainty lies with her parentage. Later pedigrees do not agree on whether she belonged to the family of William Wood of Bonnytoun or to another Wood parentage, so this profile does not treat either version as settled without stronger evidence.
Sources: RMS V, Charter 637 , 30 November 1583, which names Isobel Wood as Alexander’s spouse and reserves her reasonable terce; Scotland’s People, CC8/8/19.
1534–1546 — The Eassie Family at Hiltoun
The relationship between the Guthries of Eassie and the lands of Hiltoun began earlier than the surviving 1545–1546 Saltoun Papers initially suggested. A Great Seal record confirmed on 24 May 1534 identifies David Guthrie of Eassie as the hereditary possessor of interests in three quarters of Hiltoun of Guthrie and one quarter of Easttown of Guthrie.
This is important because David was the father whose heir, John Guthrie, succeeded him at Eassie in November 1544. The Eassie family’s connection with Hiltoun therefore existed in David’s generation and was not created by a new grant to John from the Guthries of Guthrie.
The later Saltoun Papers show the next stage of that relationship. On 15 October 1545, Alexander Guthrie issued a precept of clare constat concerning Hiltoun in favor of John; on 10 May 1546, he granted John portions of Hiltoun and Easttown of Guthrie in fee and heritage, followed by sasine on the same day.
The 1546 wording is especially valuable because Alexander describes John as his “beloved kinsman.” That establishes a genuine family relationship between the Guthries of Guthrie and the Eassie family.
What it does not establish is the exact relationship. Contemporary evidence independently identifies John as the son and heir of David Guthrie of Eassie, ruling out the older pedigree placement that made him a son of Sir Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon.
The landholding relationship also requires care. By this period the Guthries of Guthrie exercised superiority over Hiltoun, while members of the Eassie family could hold hereditary possession beneath that superiority. Alexander’s legal authority over the Hiltoun lands therefore does not demonstrate paternal descent from his family.
For now, the documentary conclusion is stronger but still incomplete: the Eassie family possessed Hiltoun interests before John’s 1545–1546 transactions, and the two Guthrie families acknowledged one another as kin, but the genealogical bridge between them has not yet been proved.
Sources: RMS III, Charter 1386 , confirmed 24 May 1534; NLS Saltoun Papers Ch.14167, 15 October 1545; Ch.14168–14169, 10 May 1546. See also Guthrie of Eassie & Hiltoun .
Alexander died in October 1587. His testament, preserved in the records of the Edinburgh Commissary Court, is particularly valuable because it names members of the immediate family rather than relying on a later pedigree.
It identifies his wife Isobel Wood, his younger sons William, Gabriel and James, daughters Margaret and Elizabeth, and his brother Master John Guthrie. It also names Margaret Erskine, wife of his son William.
Other contemporary records supplement rather than contradict this family group. In particular, the 1576 Brechin material explicitly identifies Andrew as another legitimate son even though he does not appear in the surviving testamentary list.
The testament therefore gives us a contemporary core family group against which later genealogical accounts can be tested, while other records help recover children omitted from that particular document.
Source: Scotland’s People, Edinburgh Commissary Court, CC8/8/19, Testament Testamentar and Inventory of Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk in Angus; registered/confirmed 16 January 1588/89.
What About the Older Pedigrees?
Traditional genealogies generally preserve the central descent from Andrew to Alexander and from Alexander to the next laird of the same name. In this generation, therefore, the basic succession is not the principal problem.
The difficulties lie in the details. Isobel Wood’s parentage is reported differently in later sources, some children are omitted from older family summaries, and other relationships have occasionally been inferred from the territorial names Hiltoun, Eassie, and Gagie rather than demonstrated from contemporary records.
One additional clue deserves to remain on the research list. Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ identifies Jean Guthrie, wife of Alexander Lindsay, portioner of Monikie and mother of Patrick Lindsay of Kirktoun (born 1566), as a daughter of “Alexander Guthrie, fiar of that Ilk.” The chronology may fit this generation while Andrew was still living, but the wording does not itself distinguish which Alexander of that Ilk was intended. Jean is therefore not yet added to the core documented children above.
This profile retains traditional information where it remains plausible, but gives priority to people and relationships directly recoverable from records created closest to the events.
Later-source clue: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VII, p. 322 — Jean Guthrie, daughter of “Alexander Guthrie, fiar of that Ilk.”
The Next Alexander Receives Guthrie
Four years before Alexander’s death, the Crown granted the lands and Barony of Guthrie to his son and apparent heir Alexander Guthrie after the elder Alexander had resigned them.
The transaction expressly excluded Hiltoun, both property and superiority, together with the superiority of Langlands. Those interests had been dealt with separately in November 1583 and were then associated with Master Walter Lindsay of Kemphill.
The Crown grant reserved the elder Alexander’s free tenement and the reasonable terce of his wife Isobel Wood. The younger Alexander therefore received the fee during his father’s lifetime rather than simply waiting to inherit after the elder Alexander’s death in 1587.
Sources: RMS V, Charter 637 , 30 November 1583; NLS Saltoun Papers Ch.14183, contract of 10 November 1583; Ch.14184–14185, resignation of Hiltoun and superiority of Langlands, 15 November 1583.
Why This Generation Matters
With Andrew and his son Alexander, the early Guthrie succession becomes much easier to document, but the records also show how misleading a simple pedigree chart can be.
An heir could receive the fee while his father retained a liferent. Parts of the estate could be carved away or held under separate arrangements. Collateral Guthrie families could be explicitly recognized as kin without the precise relationship being recorded.
The records also show why individual family documents should not be treated as exhaustive lists. Alexander’s testament names a substantial core family, while the 1576 ecclesiastical record independently recovers his son Andrew and confirms Gabriel’s legitimacy.
And the younger lines created in this period did not simply disappear from the principal story. The descendants associated with Gagie would eventually return to the center of the Guthrie succession more than a century later.
The Succession Continues
Andrew Guthrie, 3rd of Guthrie
↓
Alexander Guthrie, 4th of Guthrie
↓
Alexander Guthrie, 5th of Guthrie
On the surface this looks like an ordinary father-to-son succession. Legally, however, both transitions involved arrangements made during the older holder’s lifetime: the first through RMS 2998 in 1543/44 and the second through RMS 637 in 1583.
Sources: RMS III, Charter 2998 ; RMS V, Charter 637 .
The Direct Line Gives Way
The younger Alexander Guthrie had already received the principal lands and Barony of Guthrie by royal confirmation on 30 November 1583, several years before his father’s death. He continued the principal line as 5th of Guthrie.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume V , Charter 637, 30 November 1583.
His wife was Agnes Falconer. Older genealogies generally give the couple a small group of sons, most commonly Alexander, William, and Henry. Contemporary records show that the family was broader than that traditional summary suggests.
How Long Did Alexander, 5th of Guthrie, Live?
Earlier reconstructions have sometimes placed Alexander’s death before 27 August 1597. The contemporary evidence shows that this is incorrect.
On that date, Alexander Guthrie senior of that Ilk made a charter of the lands and barony of Guthrie in favor of his son and apparent heir, Alexander Guthrie junior, and the younger Alexander’s wife, Jean Leighton. The transaction was therefore another lifetime settlement, not evidence that the elder Alexander had died.
The distinction becomes even clearer on 20 December 1600. Privy Council records identify Alexander Guthrie, elder of that Ilk and Alexander Guthrie, younger of that Ilk simultaneously, each acting as cautioner for the other. Alexander, 5th of Guthrie, was therefore unquestionably still living at that date.
His exact date of death has not yet been established. Because three successive generations of this family were named Alexander Guthrie, later records must be assigned with particular care unless they distinguish the men by kinship, age, or another identifying description.
Sources: RMS VI, Charter 639 , underlying charter dated 27 August 1597, confirmed 10 January 1597/98; Register of the Privy Council of Scotland, Volume VI, Acts of Caution, 20 December 1600.
Son and apparent heir of Alexander, 5th of Guthrie. The 1597 settlement placed the lands and barony in favor of Alexander and his wife Jean Leighton. He became Alexander Guthrie, 6th of Guthrie. Source: RMS VI, Charter 639 , 27 August 1597 / confirmed 10 January 1597/98.
William Guthrie of Memus, directly named as a brother of Alexander, 6th of Guthrie, in the latter’s testamentary evidence. William later succeeded his brother as 7th of Guthrie. Sources: Alexander Guthrie’s 1615 testamentary record; retour of William as heir, 20 June 1616.
Named as a brother of Alexander, 6th of Guthrie in Alexander’s 1615 testamentary record. Source: Alexander Guthrie’s 1615 testamentary evidence.
An Edinburgh apprenticeship record dated 16 March 1601 identifies Samuel Guthrie as a son of Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk. The chronology places Samuel with the elder Alexander’s family. Alexander, 6th of Guthrie, and Jean Leighton had only received their marriage settlement in 1597; a son of theirs could not already have been entering an apprenticeship four years later. Source: Edinburgh apprenticeship record, 16 March 1601. See the Samuel & Hercules research discussion .
A second Edinburgh apprenticeship entry, dated 26 March 1606, identifies Hercules Guthrie as a son of Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk. As with Samuel, the chronology places him in the elder Alexander’s generation rather than as a child of Alexander, 6th of Guthrie, and Jean Leighton. Source: Edinburgh apprenticeship record, 26 March 1606. See the Samuel & Hercules research discussion .
Older pedigrees include a son named Henry, but his place in this family has not been established by the contemporary evidence reviewed for this profile. Evidence status: traditional pedigree only; see the chronology discussion below.
The Traditional Son Henry — How Did the Identification Arise?
Traditional pedigrees commonly give Alexander Guthrie and Agnes Falconer a son named Henry. A contemporary record concerning Hiltoun of Guthrie may help explain why a Henry Guthrie was later drawn into this branch of the family.
On 22 March 1586/87, Marjory Guthrie, daughter of the deceased Henry Guthrie, burgess of Montrose, granted a procuratory for the resignation of Hiltoun of Guthrie to Master Walter Lindsay of the Haulch for a new infeftment.
The association with Hiltoun of Guthrie makes this family understandably attractive to later genealogists reconstructing the Guthries of that Ilk. The record itself, however, describes Henry only as a burgess of Montrose. It does not identify him as a son of the laird of Guthrie or give his relationship to the principal family.
The chronology also creates a serious difficulty. Henry was already deceased by March 1586/87 and had a daughter sufficiently mature to act in a property transaction. Alexander and Agnes Falconer had married in 1567. The Montrose burgess therefore cannot comfortably be made their son merely because his daughter later dealt with Hiltoun property.
For now, the traditional son Henry remains unverified, while Henry Guthrie, burgess of Montrose and his daughter Marjory are treated as a separate family whose connection with Hiltoun still requires explanation.
Source: NLS Saltoun Papers, procuratory of resignation by Marjory Guthrie, 22 March 1586/87; see the Guthrie Genealogy National Library of Scotland entries.
What the Traditional Pedigree Missed
The older three-son arrangement — Alexander, William and Henry — is too narrow. Contemporary records add at least John, Samuel and Hercules.
Samuel and Hercules are especially useful examples of why the broader documentary search matters. Neither appears in the familiar landed pedigree, but both apprenticeship records explicitly identify their father as Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk. Their dates place them in the family of Alexander, 5th of Guthrie.
The documentary picture is therefore broader than the traditional pedigree, but the traditional Henry should not simply be retained beside the newly documented sons without acknowledging that his identification remains unproved.
Alexander, the next holder of Guthrie, married Jean Leighton. He had already been identified as his father’s son and apparent heir when the lands and barony were settled upon Alexander and Jean under the 27 August 1597 marriage arrangement.
Source: RMS VI, Charter 639 , underlying charter dated 27 August 1597, confirmed 10 January 1597/98.
Older genealogies have sometimes described this marriage as childless, but the surviving testamentary evidence shows that statement to be incorrect.
1615
Alexander’s testament names his wife Jean Leighton and a daughter, Emma Guthrie.
It also names his brothers John and William, providing direct evidence for the sibling relationships that help explain the next succession.
Source: 1615 testamentary record of Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk; wife Jean Leighton, daughter Emma, and brothers John and William named in the testament.
“No Children” Is Not Correct
The traditional statement that Alexander and Jean Leighton had no children should be replaced with the more precise conclusion that Alexander had no surviving male heir who succeeded to Guthrie.
Their daughter Emma is explicitly documented. Her existence is another example of how a succession pedigree can erase family members who did not carry the estate forward.
Source: Alexander Guthrie’s 1615 testamentary record.
20 June 1616 — The Succession Moves Sideways
After Alexander’s death, Guthrie did not pass to a son. His brother William Guthrie of Memus was retoured heir on 20 June 1616.
William therefore became 7th of Guthrie through a brother-to-brother succession.
This is one of the clearest points at which the numbered list of holders ceases to resemble a sequence of biological generations.
Source: Retour / heirship evidence, 20 June 1616; the preceding 1615 testament also names William as Alexander’s brother.
William already possessed his own territorial identity as of Memus before succeeding his brother at Guthrie. His marriage to Isabella Fenton is directly reflected in the property records surrounding the family’s dealings with Guthrie in the early seventeenth century.
Traditional pedigrees often explain the end of this phase of the Guthrie succession by stating that William had no male issue. The contemporary evidence shows otherwise.
A 1630 record identifies Alexander Guthrie as the eldest son of William Guthrie of Memus. He also appears as fiar of Memus. Source: 1630 contemporary property evidence; see the NRS Chronological Records .
The description of Alexander as William’s eldest son indicates that at least one additional son existed, even though the evidence presently assembled does not securely identify him. Evidence basis: contemporary description of Alexander as William’s eldest son.
Annas Guthrie is identified as William’s daughter in the same body of 1630 family/property evidence. Source: 1630 contemporary property evidence; see the NRS Chronological Records .
Research Lead — Was Rev. James Guthrie of Stirling Another Son?
Later research has uncovered a potentially important clue in Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ. Volume 8 identifies James Guthrie, minister of Stirling — the Covenanter later executed in 1661 — as a son of William Guthrie of Memes and a brother of Alexander Guthrie of Memes.
That statement is now particularly interesting because contemporary evidence independently shows that William Guthrie, 7th of Guthrie, really did have an eldest son named Alexander and that Alexander was not William’s only son.
The pieces therefore fit remarkably well:
William Guthrie of Memus
↓
Alexander Guthrie of / fiar of Memus
+
at least one additional son
However, the identification is not yet proved. Fasti cites a General Register of Sasines, Second Series, 30 April 1659 for the William–James–Alexander relationship, but that underlying sasine has not yet been independently located and examined.
There were also other Guthrie families associated with Memus / Memes. The territorial designation alone is therefore not sufficient to identify Fasti’s William automatically with the 7th of Guthrie.
For now, Rev. James Guthrie should remain a significant research candidate rather than an added son in the documented family table above.
Source: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VIII, p. 393 ; cited underlying source: General Register of Sasines, Second Series, 30 April 1659.
The Traditional “No Male Issue” Claim
William’s documented son Alexander means that the familiar statement that William had no sons cannot be used to explain why the lands of Guthrie passed elsewhere.
Indeed, because Alexander is specifically described as his eldest son, William had more than one son. The identity of the additional son or sons remains under investigation.
The family line and the estate succession diverged for a much simpler legal reason: William sold Guthrie.
1621–1630 — From Earlier Interests to the Sale of Guthrie
David’s connection with the Guthrie estate began before the final sale. An instrument of sasine dated 24 April 1621 placed David Guthrie of Kincaldrum in possession of specified lands within the Barony of Guthrie, including Heughhead, Mylnetoun, Eastertoun and Kirktoun, under charters granted by William Guthrie with the consent of Isabella Fenton.
The decisive transaction followed on 10 September 1629, when William Guthrie of that Ilk, with the consent of his wife Isabella Fenton, sold the principal lands and Barony of Guthrie irredeemably to David Guthrie of Kincaldrum. The Crown confirmed that sale on 24 July 1630.
The conveyance included the core Guthrie lands and associated rights — including the mains or Kirktoun, tower and manor-place, mill and mill lands, Eastertoun, Mylntoun, and the patronage of the collegiate church — while Hiltoun and Langlands remained outside the transfer.
The crucial point is that David of Kincaldrum did not inherit Guthrie from William. He acquired the principal estate by purchase.
Sources: National Records of Scotland, GD137, Instrument of Sasine, 24 April 1621; Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume VIII, Charter 1616 , underlying irredeemable sale dated 10 September 1629, confirmed 24 July 1630.
The purchaser, David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, belonged to the collateral Kincaldrum line descending from the branch separated from the principal Guthrie succession generations earlier.
The two histories therefore intersect again — but not because the main Guthrie line had died out, and not because David was the natural next heir to William.
One Guthrie branch sold the estate to another Guthrie branch.
That distinction is essential. William still had male descendants. The transfer of Guthrie was a property transaction, not evidence of the extinction of his family.
Sources: RMS VIII, Charter 1616 ; Guthrie of Kincaldrum — Generation 7 .
Why This Phase Matters
These three holders expose several weaknesses in the simplified traditional pedigree.
The family of Alexander, 5th of Guthrie, was broader than the familiar pedigree suggests. Contemporary evidence now adds John, Samuel and Hercules to the better-known sons Alexander and William, while the traditional Henry remains unverified.
Alexander, 6th of Guthrie, had a documented daughter despite later claims that he had no children. His brother William then succeeded laterally, and William himself had sons despite the repeated statement that he left no male issue.
Finally, Guthrie passed out of William’s hands not through a failure of heirs but through an irredeemable sale to David Guthrie of Kincaldrum.
The distinction between who belonged to the family and who possessed the estate has now become impossible to ignore.
The Succession Changes Character
Alexander Guthrie, 5th of Guthrie
↓
Alexander Guthrie, 6th of Guthrie
↓
brother-to-brother succession
William Guthrie of Memus, 7th of Guthrie
↓
irredeemable sale
David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, 8th of Guthrie
With the 1629/30 sale, possession of the principal Guthrie estate moves from the recent main-line holders to a collateral Kincaldrum branch. This was not a biological succession from William to David.
Sources: William’s 1616 retour; RMS VIII, Charter 1616 , 1629–30 sale.
Kincaldrum Returns to Guthrie
David’s involvement with the Guthrie estate began before the final purchase. An instrument of sasine dated 24 April 1621 placed David Guthrie of Kincaldrum in possession of specified lands within the Barony of Guthrie, including Heughhead, Mylntoun, Eastertoun and Kirktoun of Guthrie.
Source: National Records of Scotland, GD137, Instrument of Sasine, 24 April 1621. See the Guthrie of Kincaldrum source trail .
The decisive transaction followed on 10 September 1629, when William Guthrie of that Ilk, with the consent of his wife Isabella Fenton, sold the principal lands and Barony of Guthrie irredeemably to David Guthrie of Kincaldrum. The Crown confirmed the transaction on 24 July 1630.
David belonged to the continuing Kincaldrum branch descended from the earlier family associated with that estate. His acquisition of Guthrie therefore reunited two territorial histories that had once belonged to the same family but had travelled through different descendants.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume VIII, Charter 1616 . Underlying charter dated 10 September 1629; Crown confirmation 24 July 1630.
Alexander Guthrie, fiar and later of Kincaldrum , eldest legitimate son and apparent heir of David. His marriage to Mariote Grahame, daughter of Sir William Grahame of Claverhouse, was arranged under the 1615 Kincaldrum settlement. Sources: RMS VIII, Charters 1956 and 2216 . Charter 1956 expressly calls Alexander David’s eldest legitimate son and apparent heir; Charter 2216 confirms the marriage settlement with Mariote Grahame.
Explicitly identified as a son of David Guthrie in the family context of the 1629 Guthrie conveyance. Source: RMS VIII, Charter 1616 .
Also explicitly identified as a son of David Guthrie in the 1629 property transaction. Source: RMS VIII, Charter 1616 .
Included among the children traditionally associated with David Guthrie and Katherine Blair, but not yet established by the same level of contemporary evidence as Alexander, William and Master Archibald. Evidence status: retained as a reconstructed family member pending stronger contemporary identification.
1633 — Kincaldrum Itself Is Sold
Older reconstructions sometimes suggested that David’s son Alexander had died before the family gave up Kincaldrum. Contemporary Great Seal evidence directly disproves that version.
On 29 November 1633, Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum himself sold the Barony of Kincaldrum to Sir John Blair of Balgillo. The conveyance reserved a liferent in half of Carret to Alexander’s father, David Guthrie.
The Crown confirmed Alexander’s transaction on 27 June 1635.
Alexander did not disappear after making the sale. He appears among the Justices of the Peace for Forfar in September 1634 and is still a party in litigation on 8 December 1635.
Thus, during the same short period in which this branch had acquired Guthrie, it was disposing of Kincaldrum.
Sources: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume IX, Charter 323 , confirming Alexander’s charter of 29 November 1633 on 27 June 1635; Register of the Privy Council of Scotland, Second Series, Volume V, pp. 385–386, 18 September 1634; NLS Ch.15047, 8 December 1635.
The Two Estates Cross Paths
For a brief period the old Kincaldrum line held both identities. By the mid-1630s, Kincaldrum had passed away from the family while Guthrie remained at the center of its property arrangements.
Sources: RMS VIII, Charter 1616; RMS IX, Charter 323.
The next transfer did not occur by ordinary inheritance either. Rev. Patrick Guthrie belonged to the Kincaldrum family. Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ explicitly identifies him as a son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum. Later accounts of the Guthrie property contracts describe Patrick as the brother-german of David Guthrie, although the underlying 1624 contracts containing that wording have not yet been independently relocated and examined.
Patrick’s career combined university service and parish ministry. He was a Regent and later Sub-Principal of King’s College, Aberdeen, served at Keith and Towie / Kinbattock, and was transferred to Logie-Buchan in 1626.
Sources: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VI, pp. 141, 196 & 319 ; Fasti, Volume VIII, p. 575 , identifying Patrick as son of Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum. The reported brother-german wording from the 1624 property contracts remains an underlying-record research target.
From Wadset to Ownership
Patrick’s connection with Guthrie appears to have developed in stages. Surviving accounts of the family property sequence report wadset contracts in 1624 involving portions of the estate and describe Patrick as David’s brother-german.
The same reconstructed property sequence records a wadset over the whole Barony of Guthrie and its church patronage on 22 May 1629, redeemable for 19,000 merks.
A later account of the property papers then records the decisive change on 12 December 1633, when David and his son Alexander made an absolute and irredeemable disposition of Guthrie to Patrick.
These transactions fit the later succession very well, but the underlying 1624 contracts and 12 December 1633 disposition still need to be relocated and examined directly before every detail of their wording is treated as independently verified primary evidence.
Source trail: Guthrie of Kincaldrum — Generation 7 . The 1624 contracts and 12 December 1633 absolute disposition remain listed there among the underlying records still to be relocated and examined.
Patrick therefore became the next holder of Guthrie through a sequence of financial and property transactions, rather than because the estate simply descended to him as David’s brother.
Unlike the preceding transfer from David to Patrick, the passage from Patrick to Peter Guthrie was an heirship. The contemporary Great Seal charter later in 1636 explicitly describes Peter as the son and heir of the deceased Rev. Patrick Guthrie, minister of Logie-Buchan and styles Peter of that Ilk.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume IX, Charter 616 .
24 May 1636 — A Date That Has Caused Confusion
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ states that Rev. Patrick Guthrie and Jean Blackwood had a son named Patrick, who was served heir to his father on 24 May 1636.
The Great Seal evidence later that same year is clearer but gives a different Christian name. RMS IX, Charter 616 identifies Peter Guthrie, then of that Ilk, as the son and heir of the deceased Mr Patrick Guthrie, minister of Logie-Buchan.
The two forms should not be forced into a speculative family reconstruction. There is presently no need to propose that separate sons Patrick and Peter succeeded one another.
The underlying 24 May 1636 service of heir remains a priority record. It may show that Fasti misread or modernized Peter’s name, or it may reveal some other explanation for the discrepancy.
Until that record is examined, the safest conclusion is: Peter is securely documented by the later contemporary Great Seal charter as Patrick’s son and heir.
Sources: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VI, pp. 141, 196 & 319 ; RMS IX, Charter 616 .
13 September 1636
On 13 September 1636, Peter Guthrie of that Ilk resigned the lands and Barony of Guthrie into the Crown’s hands.
The Crown subsequently granted the estate on 28 November 1636 to John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray, and his wife Nichola / Nicolas Wood in conjunct infeftment.
Bishop John therefore did not inherit Guthrie from Peter. His place as the next numbered holder arose through Peter’s resignation followed by a new Crown grant.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume IX, Charter 616 . Peter’s resignation: 13 September 1636; Crown grant to Bishop John and Nichola Wood: 28 November 1636.
Why the Older Succession Can Be Misleading
A traditional numbered pedigree can make this period look like an ordinary sequence: William → David → Patrick → Peter → Bishop John . The names are successive holders, but the arrows conceal the legal history.
What the Numbered List Suggests
One family member naturally succeeds another as though the estate were travelling through an ordinary line of descent.
What the Records Show
William sold to David. Patrick’s interest developed through wadset and later disposition arrangements. Peter succeeded Patrick as heir. Peter then resigned the estate so that the Crown could make a new grant to Bishop John and Nichola Wood.
This is precisely why the numbering on this profile is used only as a genealogical and navigational convenience. It identifies successive holders of the estate; it does not describe the legal mechanism or biological relationship between every pair of names.
Principal evidence: RMS VIII, Charter 1616; reported 1624–1633 Patrick property sequence; RMS IX, Charter 616.
Why This Phase Matters
In barely a generation, the two estates at the heart of this profile effectively changed places. The Kincaldrum branch acquired Guthrie, then disposed of Kincaldrum itself.
Meanwhile, Guthrie moved among members of the wider family through sale, wadset, absolute disposition, inheritance, and resignation with Crown regrant .
The records also demonstrate why source quality matters. Some stages — David’s purchase, Alexander’s sale of Kincaldrum, Peter’s heirship and the 1636 Crown grant — are directly recoverable from contemporary Great Seal or archival records. Other details, particularly the 1624 wadsets and 1633 disposition to Patrick, still depend upon surviving accounts whose underlying instruments remain to be examined.
By 1636 the estate had reached John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray. His acquisition begins another major phase of the story — one shaped not only by family and property succession, but by the religious and political crisis of seventeenth-century Scotland.
The Kincaldrum Reconnection
William Guthrie of Memus, 7th of Guthrie
↓ irredeemable sale
David Guthrie of Kincaldrum, 8th of Guthrie
↓ wadset sequence → reported absolute disposition to his brother
Rev. Patrick Guthrie, 9th of Guthrie
↓ son and heir
Peter Guthrie, 10th of Guthrie
↓ resignation and Crown regrant
John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray, 11th of Guthrie
Sources: RMS VIII, Charter 1616; Guthrie/Kincaldrum property accounts for Patrick’s wadsets and disposition; RMS IX, Charter 616.
Bishop John Guthrie and the Gagie Reunion
In 1636 the Barony of Guthrie passed into the hands of John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray. Peter Guthrie resigned the estate on 13 September 1636, and the Crown granted it on 28 November 1636 to Bishop John and his wife Nichola Wood in conjunct infeftment.
The timing is important. When John acquired Guthrie in 1636, he was still the sitting Bishop of Moray and an established member of the royal episcopal establishment. Guthrie did not become his place of retirement until later, after the Covenanting crisis brought his deposition, imprisonment, and exclusion from his diocese.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume IX, Charter 616 . Peter’s resignation: 13 September 1636; Crown grant to Bishop John and Nichola Wood: 28 November 1636.
Bishop John therefore became 11th of Guthrie by legal transfer rather than by ordinary descent from Peter. His immediate parentage is now much clearer: ministerial and biographical evidence identifies him as the son of Patrick Guthrie, goldsmith of St Andrews, and Margaret Raitt. His brother was Rev. James Guthrie, minister of Kinnell and Arbirlot.
The deeper ancestry requires a different evidence label. The corrected Lyon Office pedigree of 1773 carries this St Andrews family backward through Charles Guthrie of St Andrews, David Guthrie of Hiltoun, and William Guthrie of Hiltoun. That pedigree is important evidence, but the earlier links have not all yet been independently proved by contemporary records.
Sources: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VII, p. 351 ; Volume VIII, p. 710 corrigendum correcting Hart to Rait; Guthrie of Craigie — corrected 1773 Lyon Office pedigree .
How Securely Can Bishop John’s Ancestry Be Carried Back Through Hiltoun?
Bishop John’s immediate parentage is no longer the principal uncertainty. He belongs to the documented St Andrews household of Patrick Guthrie, goldsmith, and Margaret Raitt, and his brother Rev. James Guthrie continued the ministerial family later ancestral to the Guthries of Craigie.
The uncertainty begins farther back. A corrected pedigree preserved by the Lyon Office in 1773 gives the following ancestry:
William Guthrie of Hiltoun + Margaret Ogilvie
↓
David Guthrie of Hiltoun + Christian Wemyss
↓
Charles Guthrie of St Andrews + Agnes Brown
↓
Patrick Guthrie, goldsmith + Margaret Raitt
↓
John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray
The corrected pedigree is considerably more coherent than the earlier 1772 version, which compressed Bishop John into the wrong generation. It also fits the broader documentary geography of Hiltoun, St Andrews, and the later ministerial family.
But it remains a retrospective heraldic pedigree. Contemporary evidence for William → David → Charles → Patrick is still incomplete. In particular, the Charles-to-Patrick relationship and the identity of William of Hiltoun’s father remain important research targets.
The surviving Hiltoun evidence should therefore not be stretched backward to restore the older claim that a John of Eassie or Hiltoun was a son of Sir Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon. That placement has already been excluded by chronology and by the documented parentage of the later John of Eassie.
The safe conclusion is: Bishop John’s parents are established; the corrected Hiltoun ancestry is a strong and coherent pedigree reconstruction, but its earliest generational links still need contemporary confirmation.
Sources: Bishop John Research Sketch ; Guthrie of Craigie — 1772/1773 Lyon pedigree analysis ; Guthrie of Eassie & Hiltoun .
Named with Bishop John in the 1636 Crown grant of Guthrie. In May 1642 she arranged for the household goods and furnishings at Spynie to be transported to Guthrie. Nichola died at Guthrie on 2 July 1645 and was buried on 4 July in the aisle of the Kirk of Guthrie. Bishop John’s brother Rev. James Guthrie of Arbirlot recorded both events in his diary. Four years later James recorded that Bishop John was buried beside her. Sources: RMS IX, Charter 616 ; Bishop John Research Sketch — Rev. James Guthrie’s diary .
Identified as Bishop John’s eldest lawful son. He became minister of Keith and later Duffus, married Anna Innes on 26 December 1626, and had at least one daughter, Nicolas Guthrie. He died at Guthrie on 8 June 1643. Sources: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VI, pp. 319 & 385 ; 1636 Guthrie settlement evidence.
Identified as the bishop’s second son. After the death of his elder brother John, Patrick moved into the legal succession. On 28 September 1643 he is explicitly styled “Patrick Guthrie, fiar of that ilk” while presenting Patrick Lyell to the kirk of Guthrie. Bishop John’s later settlement placed Francis Guthrie and Bathiah ahead of Patrick while retaining Patrick and the male heirs of his body among the substitute successors. No spouse or children have yet been securely documented for Bishop John’s son Patrick. Sources: NRS GD188/14/1, 28 September 1643; RMS XI, Charter 565 .
Identified as the bishop’s third son. Andrew joined the Royalist cause, was captured after the campaign associated with Philiphaugh, and was executed at St Andrews on 20 January 1646. Sources: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VII, p. 351 ; Records of the Parliaments of Scotland , January 1646 proceedings against Andrew Guthrie.
Margaret Guthrie married David Collace, brother of John Collace of Balnamoon. Their marriage contract is dated 21 and 30 January 1628 and explicitly identifies Margaret as daughter of the Bishop of Moray. Source: National Records of Scotland, GD188/2/9.
Nicolas Guthrie married Joseph Brodie. Their 12 August 1631 marriage contract identifies Nicolas as a daughter of John, Bishop of Moray. Source: National Records of Scotland, GD188/2/9.
Agnes Guthrie married George Hay of Rannes. A 1643 letter preserved by the National Library of Scotland identifies George Hay of Rannes as Bishop John Guthrie’s son-in-law. Independent Hay evidence identifies Agnes Guthrie as George Hay’s wife. The intersecting relationships strongly support Agnes as another daughter of Bishop John and Nichola Wood. Source: National Library of Scotland, MS.2975, fols. 1–3. See the NLS Guthrie Records .
Baptised at Edinburgh on 27 July 1623 as a daughter of Mr John Guthrie and Nicolas Wood. She married Francis Guthrie of Gagie on 4 May 1647. Their marriage became central to the later restructuring of the succession to Guthrie. Sources: Bishop John Research Sketch ; Guthrie of Gagie .
Agnes Guthrie & George Hay of Rannes — Reconstructing the Relationship
Agnes does not appear in a presently identified record using the complete wording “Agnes Guthrie, daughter of John, Bishop of Moray.” Her identification instead rests on two complementary relationships.
A letter written in 1643 by John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray, is catalogued by the National Library of Scotland as addressed to his son-in-law George Hay of Rannes.
Separate Hay records identify George Hay’s wife as Agnes Guthrie. Later Hay family material explicitly describes Agnes as a daughter of Guthrie of Guthrie, Bishop of Moray.
The two relationships intersect at George Hay: he was both husband of Agnes Guthrie and son-in-law of Bishop John. Agnes is therefore treated here as a strongly supported daughter while preserving the distinction between this reconstruction and a single document spelling out all three relationships.
Source: National Library of Scotland, MS.2975, folios 1–3 — letter of John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray, to his son-in-law George Hay of Rannes, 1643.
Margaret Guthrie & David Collace — A Correction to the Later Record
This marriage is a useful example of why contemporary family documents should be preferred when later biographical accounts disagree.
The surviving 1628 marriage contract explicitly identifies the bride as Margaret Guthrie, daughter of John, Bishop of Moray, and the groom as David Collace, brother of John Collace of Balnamoon.
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ instead names Lucretia Guthrie as David Collace’s wife. The contemporary contract carries substantially greater evidentiary weight and establishes Margaret as the daughter who married Collace.
This does not by itself prove that no daughter named Lucretia ever existed. It means that the particular Lucretia = wife of David Collace statement is contradicted by the contemporary marriage contract. Lucretia remains a separate research question.
Sources: NRS GD188/2/9, marriage contract of 21 and 30 January 1628; Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VII, p. 351 .
The Guthrie family papers preserve more than marriages and succession documents. Among the records grouped with the family papers is an earlier 1607 inventory of the contents of the house of Spynie.
The inventory predates John Guthrie’s tenure as Bishop of Moray, so its contents should not be described as his personal possessions. It is nevertheless valuable for reconstructing the physical setting of the episcopal residence later occupied by Bishop John, Nichola Wood, and their family.
Seen alongside the children’s marriage and correspondence records, these sources help move the family beyond a list of ecclesiastical offices and estate transactions. Spynie was also a household: a place where family life, marriage arrangements, clerical connections and political pressures intersected before the crisis of the 1630s and 1640s ultimately displaced the household to Guthrie.
Archival group: NRS GD188/2/9 — Spynie inventory and Guthrie family marriage-contract material.
1643 — Patrick Becomes Fiar of Guthrie
Patrick’s place in the family was not merely that of a younger son who might someday inherit. After the death of his elder brother John, Patrick appears on 28 September 1643 expressly styled “fiar of that ilk.”
On that date Patrick presented Patrick Lyell to the kirk of Guthrie, exercising the right of patronage attached to the estate. His description as fiar shows that he occupied a legally recognized position in the succession while Bishop John remained the senior proprietor.
The significance of this record becomes apparent when it is compared with the bishop’s later settlement: Francis and Bathiah were subsequently placed ahead of Patrick in the destination of the estate.
Source: National Records of Scotland, GD188/14/1, presentation by Patrick Guthrie, fiar of that ilk, 28 September 1643.
From Royal Bishop to Prisoner
Bishop John acquired Guthrie at almost the last moment of relative security for Scotland’s episcopal establishment. Within two years, the National Covenant and the collapse of royal episcopacy transformed his circumstances.
From Spynie to His Own Place of Guthrie
The events of 1642 make the distinction between Spynie and Guthrie especially clear. Spynie was the episcopal residence attached to the Bishopric of Moray; Guthrie was Bishop John’s own landed estate.
After his imprisonment and release, John was prohibited from returning to his diocese. On 11 May 1642, Nichola caused the household goods and furnishings to be removed from Spynie and sent by sea to Guthrie, which the contemporary account expressly describes as hereditarily pertaining to her husband.
The account then says that the bishop “takes up his house in his own place of Guthrie, and there quietly remains.” Guthrie was therefore not simply another episcopal residence. It became the former bishop’s private home after the loss of his ecclesiastical position and exclusion from Moray.
He remained there through the closing years of his life. On 23 August 1649, his brother Rev. James Guthrie of Arbirlot recorded that Bishop John died at Guthrie at ten o’clock and was buried beside his wife.
Sources: RPS, 16 November 1641 ; contemporary 1642 household-transfer account and Rev. James Guthrie’s diary discussed in the Bishop John Research Sketch .
Bishop John’s daughter Bathiah Guthrie, also found as Bethia or Betty, married Francis Guthrie of Gagie. This was not merely a marriage between two people who happened to share the Guthrie surname.
Francis belonged to the older Gagie male line descending from William Guthrie, a younger son of Alexander Guthrie, 4th of Guthrie, and Isobel Wood. The marriage therefore brought an older collateral male Guthrie branch back into the immediate succession story.
Sources: Guthrie of Gagie ; Fasti VII, p. 351 .
The Tradition of Francis as Bishop John’s “Adopted Son”
Later family accounts describe Francis Guthrie of Gagie as Bishop John’s “adopted son.” No contemporary evidence has yet been identified for a formal adoption, and the phrase should not be interpreted in the modern legal sense.
The tradition may nevertheless preserve a family memory of the succession arrangement. Francis became both the bishop’s son-in-law and the man deliberately brought forward, with Bathiah, into the primary destination of Guthrie.
That is especially significant because Bishop John already had a son who had occupied the position of fiar of that ilk. The later settlement did not simply fill a vacancy created by the extinction of all the bishop’s sons. It reordered the destination of the estate.
Evidence status: “adopted son” is a later family tradition. The actual legal succession arrangement is preserved in RMS XI, Charter 565 .
By 1643 Patrick Guthrie had become fiar of that ilk. Bishop John’s later charter nevertheless placed Francis Guthrie of Gagie and Bathiah Guthrie in conjunct fee, followed by a carefully ordered series of substitute male heirs.
The underlying charter was granted by Bishop John during his lifetime. Its terms survive in a later royal confirmation issued on 4 March 1664.
In simplified form, the destination of Guthrie proceeded through:
- Francis Guthrie and Bathiah Guthrie and the male heirs of their bodies.
- Other male heirs of Francis Guthrie.
- Master Patrick Guthrie, son of Bishop John, and the male heirs of his body.
- Master James Guthrie, the bishop’s brother and minister of Arbirlot, and the male heirs of his body.
- The further male substitutes specified by the original settlement.
The order is crucial. Patrick had not simply vanished from the succession. He remained a named potential successor, but Francis and Bathiah, their male descendants, and Francis’s other male heirs were placed ahead of him.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume XI, Charter 565 , 4 March 1664 — royal confirmation preserving Bishop John’s earlier charter and its detailed remainder sequence.
What Happened to Patrick’s Position as Fiar?
This remains one of the most interesting unresolved legal and genealogical questions in the history of Guthrie.
On 28 September 1643 Patrick was unquestionably styled “fiar of that ilk.” He therefore occupied a recognized legal position in the estate succession during Bishop John’s lifetime.
Yet Bishop John’s later charter placed Francis and Bathiah ahead of Patrick. Patrick himself remained within the destination, so the later charter does not by itself explain what had happened to his earlier position as fiar.
Something therefore changed in the legal arrangements surrounding Guthrie after September 1643. Patrick may have resigned or reconveyed his interest, consented to a new settlement, or been affected by another transaction not yet recovered.
It is also not yet securely established whether Patrick was still living when Bishop John framed the later settlement. Because a document dated in 1650 can refer retrospectively to earlier gifts of escheat, that date cannot be used by itself to extend Patrick’s life beyond Bishop John’s death.
Until the intervening instrument or clearer evidence of Patrick’s later life is recovered, the reason his earlier priority was superseded remains unresolved.
Sources: NRS GD188/14/1, 28 September 1643; RMS XI, Charter 565 .
Was Bishop John’s Son Patrick the Patrick Guthrie Who Married Agnes Aykin?
Numerous online family trees identify Bishop John’s son with a Patrick Guthrie of Edinburgh or Canongate whose family is associated with Agnes Aykin / Aikin and children including John, Agnes and Margaret.
That identification should not be accepted merely because the name and approximate period appear compatible. Bishop John’s Patrick is specifically documented as fiar of that ilk in 1643 and remained a named substitute successor in Bishop John’s later settlement.
The phrase providing for “the male heirs of his body” cannot be used as evidence that he was father of the John found in the Patrick Guthrie / Agnes Aykin family. The settlement names no wife, no son, and no existing children for Bishop John’s Patrick.
Unless an independent contemporary record links the Edinburgh or Canongate Patrick directly to Bishop John Guthrie, Guthrie of that Ilk, or the documented succession at Guthrie, the two men should remain separate.
Comparison sources: NRS GD188/14/1; RMS XI, Charter 565 . No contemporary bridge to Agnes Aykin has yet been identified.
The Gagie Line Comes Back
↓
William Guthrie younger son — Ravensbie / Eastertown / Gagie line ↓
Francis Guthrie of Gagie
+
Bathiah Guthrie daughter of Bishop John Guthrie
Through their marriage and Bishop John’s settlement, two strands of the wider Guthrie family were brought together: Bathiah carried the bishop’s immediate family connection, while Francis represented the older Gagie male branch.
The settlement did more than recognize that marriage. It placed the newly joined Francis–Bathiah line ahead of Patrick, who had previously been fiar, while preserving Patrick as a later substitute successor.
Sources: Guthrie of Gagie ; RMS XI, Charter 565 .
Died Between 4 March 1664 and 4 April 1665
Older accounts have sometimes placed Francis’s death much later, around 1677. The succession evidence shows that he was already deceased by 4 April 1665, when his son John Guthrie was served heir in Wester Gagie.
Francis was still alive when the Crown confirmed the Guthrie settlement in his favor on 4 March 1664, narrowing his death to the period between those dates.
Their son John would carry both family streams into the next phase of the history.
Sources: RMS XI, Charter 565 , 4 March 1664; 4 April 1665 service of John Guthrie as heir in Wester Gagie, discussed in Guthrie of Gagie .
Why Bishop John Matters
Bishop John’s importance to the Guthrie story extends far beyond his ecclesiastical career. His surviving family records reveal sons and daughters, marriage alliances extending from Balnamoon to Rannes, a household at Spynie, imprisonment during the Covenanting crisis, and a final return to his private estate at Guthrie.
His immediate family can now be reconstructed with considerably greater confidence than older pedigrees allowed. He was a son of Patrick Guthrie, goldsmith of St Andrews, and Margaret Raitt, and brother of Rev. James Guthrie of Kinnell and Arbirlot. The corrected 1773 Lyon pedigree extends the family farther back through Hiltoun, although those earliest links still require additional contemporary confirmation.
The records also reveal something more complicated than the traditional story that all three sons died and Francis was simply brought in to replace them. Bishop John’s son Patrick had actually become fiar of that ilk. The later settlement placed Francis and Bathiah ahead of Patrick while retaining Patrick as a substitute successor.
Through Bathiah and Francis, the principal Guthrie succession was also reconnected with the older male line descending from Alexander Guthrie, 4th of Guthrie, and Isobel Wood. The traditional description of Francis as the bishop’s “adopted son” may preserve a later family memory of this deliberate dynastic rearrangement, but it should not be interpreted as proof of a formal adoption.
Bishop John’s final years also return the story firmly to the estate itself. Expelled from Moray, he settled at his own place of Guthrie, died there on 23 August 1649, and was buried beside Nichola.
The Succession Is Reordered and Rejoined
John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray, 11th of Guthrie
↓
Patrick Guthrie, fiar of that ilk
documented in the succession by 1643
↓
later succession restructured
Bathiah Guthrie
+
Francis Guthrie of Gagie
↓
John Guthrie of Guthrie
Patrick remains essential to the history even though the estate ultimately followed the Francis–Bathiah settlement. His position demonstrates again why the legal succession, the numbered holders, and the biological family tree are not identical.
Sources: NRS GD188/14/1; RMS XI, Charter 565 .
The Gagie Line Takes Root at Guthrie
Under the retrospective numbering used on this profile, Francis Guthrie of Gagie is counted as 12th of Guthrie because Bishop John’s settlement placed Francis and Bathiah in conjunct fee and made their line the primary destination of the estate.
The number is, as elsewhere on this page, a genealogical convenience rather than a contemporary title. Francis himself retained his established identity as of Gagie, while the legal settlement linked him and Bathiah directly with Guthrie.
Source: Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Volume XI, Charter 565 , 4 March 1664. The charter confirms Bishop John’s earlier grant to Francis Guthrie of Gagie and Betty/Bathiah Guthrie in conjunct fee, with the specified tail-male succession.
Francis died between 4 March 1664 and 4 April 1665. He was alive when the Crown confirmed the Guthrie settlement on 4 March 1664. By 4 April 1665 his son John Guthrie was being served heir to him in Wester Gagie.
Sources: RMS XI, Charter 565 , 4 March 1664; Alexander J. Warden, Angus or Forfarshire: The Land and People, Volume V, citing Retour no. 412 for John’s service as heir on 4 April 1665. See also Guthrie of Gagie .
In John Guthrie, the two family strands joined by the marriage of Francis and Bathiah continued in a single person. Through his father he belonged to the older male Guthrie line of Gagie; through his mother he was the grandson of Bishop John Guthrie.
24 March 1680 — Marriage with Cicill Carnegie
John married Cicill or Cecil Carnegie, daughter of the deceased Sir John Carnegie of Balnamoon, knight. Their surviving marriage contract is dated 24 March 1680.
This documentary identification is particularly important because later Carnegie pedigrees disagree over which daughter married John Guthrie.
The contract itself identifies Cecil’s father but does not name her mother. Her maternal ancestry should therefore not be assigned here simply by choosing among the later conflicting Carnegie pedigrees.
Source: NRS GD188/2/2 , Marriage Contract between John Guthrie of that Ilk and Cicill Carnegy, daughter of the deceased Sir John Carnegy of Balnamoon, 24 March 1680.
Cecil or Elizabeth Carnegie? — A Secondary-Source Conflict
Later genealogical sources do not agree about which daughter of Sir John Carnegie of Balnamoon married John Guthrie. The Scots Peerage, for example, identifies Elizabeth Carnegie as John’s wife and states that Cecil died unmarried.
The surviving contemporary marriage contract gives the opposite identification. On 24 March 1680 it names the parties as John Guthrie of that Ilk and Cicill Carnegy, daughter of the deceased Sir John Carnegy of Balnamoon.
For this marriage, the contemporary contract must take precedence over the later pedigree. This profile therefore identifies John’s wife as Cicill / Cecil Carnegie.
The discrepancy does, however, mean that other details attached to the Carnegie daughters in later pedigrees — including their maternal assignments — should be checked independently rather than transferred automatically to Cecil.
Primary source: NRS GD188/2/2 , 24 March 1680. Conflict source: Sir James Balfour Paul, The Scots Peerage, Volume VIII, Carnegie of Southesk pedigree.
James Guthrie, later counted here as 14th of Guthrie. His 1704 marriage contract explicitly calls him the only son of John Guthrie of that Ilk. Source: NRS GD188/1/6 , Extract Marriage Contract, 13 May 1704.
Baptized 10 May 1691. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism, parish of Guthrie.
Baptized 23 December 1693. Duplicate index entries appear to represent the same baptism rather than two separate daughters. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism, parish of Guthrie.
Baptized 21 July 1697. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism, parish of Guthrie.
Reported in later family material to have married James Wright, merchant in Montrose. Independent contemporary evidence linking Margaret to John and Cecil has not yet been identified. Evidence status: later pedigree / family-history placement; contemporary confirmation still sought.
What Does “Only Son” Actually Tell Us?
James’s 1704 marriage contract describes him explicitly as the only son of John Guthrie of that Ilk. That is unusually strong contemporary evidence for his family position at the date of the contract.
John Guthrie and Cecil Carnegie married in 1680, while the surviving parish baptisms presently identified for their children begin only in 1691. The eleven-year gap should not be filled with invented children simply because the register evidence is presently silent.
At the same time, “only son” in a 1704 legal document need not prove that no other male child had ever been born. An earlier son who died before the contract could leave James as the only son then living and legally relevant to the settlement.
The safest formulation is therefore: James was John’s only son recognized in the 1704 marriage contract and, on the evidence presently known, the only surviving son at that date.
Source: NRS GD188/1/6 , 13 May 1704.
The next succession is straightforward genealogically. James Guthrie was John’s documented only son in the 1704 marriage contract and succeeded to the family’s principal interests.
13 May 1704
The marriage contract identifies James Guthrie as the only son of John Guthrie of that Ilk and concerns his marriage with Margaret Turnbull, eldest daughter of John Turnbull of Strickathrow, the place-name also found in later forms such as Stracathro.
The extract was later registered in the Forfar Sheriff Court books on 6 September 1704.
Parish records dated 14 May 1704 record James and Margaret seeking proclamation of their banns. That entry is therefore evidence of the marriage process and should not automatically be converted into the date of the marriage ceremony itself.
Source: NRS GD188/1/6 , Extract Marriage Contract between James Guthrie and Margaret Turnbull, 13 May 1704; registered 6 September 1704. Parish proclamation: Scotland’s People OPR.
Baptized 3 April 1705. Later 15th of Guthrie. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism, parish of Guthrie.
Baptized 30 October 1707. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism, parish of Guthrie.
Baptized 14 January 1710. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism, parish of Guthrie.
George Guthrie, baptized 13 July 1711 in the parish of Guthrie, son of James Guthrie and Margaret Turnbull. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register, Guthrie parish 291, reference 10/56.
Baptized 13 March 1713. The manuscript identifies her parents as James Guthrie “of that Ilk” and Mrs Turnbull, his lady. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism, parish of Guthrie.
James died in February 1752. A burial entry dated 16 February 1752 is consistent with the family tradition placing his death on 11 February.
Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register burial entry, 16 February 1752. The precise death date of 11 February derives from later family tradition and is therefore distinguished from the burial record.
How a Baptism Became an “Infeftment”
Older versions of the Guthrie pedigree have attached the year 1705 to John Guthrie as though it marked an infeftment or succession to the estate.
The surviving parish record provides a clear event on exactly that date: 3 April 1705 was John’s baptism. That is the event the record presently proves.
It would be incorrect to argue that a child could not have received a fee or been infeft while his father remained alive. Earlier generations on this very page show that Scottish property could be settled upon an heir during the older proprietor’s lifetime.
The problem with the traditional “infeft 1705” statement is instead an evidentiary one: no independent 1705 charter, sasine or other property instrument has been identified to show that the infant John was infeft at that time, while his baptism on 3 April 1705 is directly documented.
The safest conclusion is therefore that 1705 entered the pedigree from John’s baptism and was later misinterpreted as a property-succession date, unless a separate contemporary infeftment record is eventually found.
Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism of John Guthrie, 3 April 1705. No separate 1705 infeftment instrument has yet been identified.
John Guthrie was baptized on 3 April 1705 and later succeeded his father James at Guthrie. He married Jean Hodge in 1732.
Jean was a daughter of Rev. James Hodge of Bathkemmar, minister of Longforgan, and Margaret Scrimgeour. Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ specifically records Jean’s 1732 marriage to John Guthrie, younger, of that Ilk.
Sources: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume V, p. 353 ; Scotland’s People OPR for John’s 1705 baptism.
A carved stone formerly associated with the entrance or court-gate at Gagie bore the date 1737 together with the initials J.G. : J.H..
Alexander Warden identified those initials with John Guthrie and Jean Hodge. The stone therefore provides a surviving material association between the later Guthries of Guthrie and their continuing Gagie property identity.
Warden’s nineteenth-century local history also records the couple with one son and two daughters: John, who succeeded; Jean, who married John Scrymgeour of Tealing; and Margaret, who married William Alison, merchant in Dundee.
Source: Alexander J. Warden, Angus or Forfarshire: The Land and People, Volume V, Gagie/Murroes account. Transcription and discussion: Guthrie of Gagie .
Later 16th of Guthrie; married Margaret Whyte. Source trail: Guthrie of Gagie ; later Guthrie family succession records.
Recorded by Warden as a daughter who married John Scrymgeour of Tealing. Source: Alexander J. Warden, Angus or Forfarshire, Volume V. Contemporary marriage evidence remains desirable.
Recorded by Warden as a daughter who married William Alison, merchant in Dundee. Source: Alexander J. Warden, Angus or Forfarshire, Volume V. Contemporary marriage evidence remains desirable.
A More Familiar Pattern Emerges
After more than a century of sales, collateral branches, wadsets, resignations, reordered destinations, and the reunion of separate Guthrie lines, the estate succession now begins to follow a more familiar family pattern.
Francis → John → James → John → John carries the estate through successive generations of the same immediate family, rather than through the earlier mixture of purchases, collateral transfers and reconstructed destinations.
Even here, however, “direct succession” should not be allowed to replace the documentary history. The exact legal mechanism and timing of each transfer still belong to the individual charters, retours and sasines.
It is precisely because the eighteenth-century family becomes easier to chart that later pedigrees can make the much more complicated earlier history of Guthrie appear deceptively simple.
The Succession Settles into a Direct Line
Francis Guthrie of Gagie, 12th of Guthrie
+
Bathiah Guthrie
↓
John Guthrie, 13th of Guthrie
m. Cicill / Cecil Carnegie
↓
James Guthrie, 14th of Guthrie
m. Margaret Turnbull
↓
John Guthrie, 15th of Guthrie
m. Jean Hodge
↓
John Guthrie, 16th of Guthrie
Principal evidence: RMS XI, Charter 565; NRS GD188/2/2; NRS GD188/1/6; Scotland’s People OPR; Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume V, p. 353.
Muirhouse, Brigton & the Victorian Castle
The next John Guthrie continued the direct father-to-son succession established in the previous generation. He married Margaret Whyte in 1763.
This marriage is important not merely because it continued the family line. The surviving marriage contract identifies Margaret as an only child and brought the lands of Muirhouse into the Guthrie family’s landed interests.
Marriage Could Change the Estate Map
The history of Guthrie was never shaped solely by inheritance through the male line. Marriage settlements could add property just as sales, resignations and wadsets could remove it.
The surviving 1763 marriage contract is more specific than the later family tradition. It included the lands of Muirhouse, both halves of the property, lying on both sides of the burn, together with the mansion place, houses, buildings, yards, orchard, dovecot and associated pertinents.
Muirhouse therefore entered the later Guthrie story through a documented marriage settlement rather than through an assumed inheritance in the male Guthrie line.
Source: surviving 1763 marriage contract of John Guthrie and Margaret Whyte, transcribed and discussed by Emily Joan Taylor, Women’s Dresses from Eighteenth-Century Scotland: Fashion Objects and Identities , PhD thesis, University of Glasgow, 2013, p. 116. The original marriage-contract archive reference remains to be pinned down for this profile.
During his father’s lifetime, Captain John Guthrie appears under the useful contemporary designation younger of Guthrie. Unlike the retrospective number “17th of Guthrie,” this was a style actually used to distinguish the heir from the senior proprietor.
24 June 1798
The parish record describes the groom as Captain John Guthrie Esq., younger of Guthrie and the bride as Ann Douglas, second daughter of Major William Douglas of Brigton.
Their proclamation was entered on 23 June 1798, and the couple were married the following day, 24 June 1798, by Mr Skinner of the chapel at Forfar.
Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register marriage/proclamation entry, Guthrie, 23–24 June 1798.
Born 8 May 1799 and baptized 6 June 1799 at Kinnettles. She married Thomas Mylne of Mylnefield on 15 September 1816 and died 14 November 1839. Sources: Scotland’s People OPR birth/baptism and marriage records; her Mylnefield memorial records her birth and death dates.
Born 6 January 1802 and baptized 12 January 1802 at Kinnettles. She remained unmarried and later lived at Balmuir House in the parish of Mains. She died there on 24 January 1873. Sources: Scotland’s People OPR; 1851–1871 census returns; statutory death record, 1873.
Born 23 July 1805. He succeeded as John Guthrie, 18th of Guthrie. Sources: Scotland’s People parish and census records; later statutory and probate evidence.
Born about 1809. A Captain in the 42nd Regiment of Foot, William remained unmarried and later lived at Balmuir House with his sisters. He died at Dundee on 25 November 1880. Sources: Scottish census returns; statutory death record, 1880; military description in the later household records.
Born 1816. Married John de Havilland Utermarck at Dundee on 25 February 1851. She died at Vimiers, Guernsey, on 1 July 1898. Sources: Scotland’s People marriage record; later Channel Islands records and family memorial evidence.
The Family at Guthrie Castle in 1841
The 1841 census gives us a rare household snapshot shortly before this generation came to an end. At Guthrie Castle were the senior proprietor and his wife together with their adult son and several unmarried daughters.
Ages in the 1841 census were commonly rounded for adults, so the enumerated ages should not be treated as exact birth dates.
Source: 1841 Scotland Census, Guthrie Castle household, parish of Guthrie.
Balmuir House — A Second Guthrie Household
The younger members of this generation did not simply disappear from the family story after their brother succeeded to Guthrie. By the middle of the nineteenth century, Balmuir House in the parish of Mains had become home to several of Captain John and Ann Douglas’s unmarried children.
In 1851, retired army officer William Guthrie was living there with his sister Jean. Two nieces from the Mylne family were also present, preserving the connection with their deceased sister Elizabeth Jane’s family.
By 1861, William was at Balmuir with Margaret and Jean Guthrie. The same sibling household remained there in 1871. Margaret died at Balmuir in 1873, while William survived until 1880.
Balmuir therefore provides a useful reminder that the family history extends beyond the single person who inherited Guthrie Castle. Collateral brothers and sisters formed households, careers and family networks of their own.
Sources: 1851, 1861 and 1871 Scotland Census returns, Balmuir House, parish of Mains; Margaret Guthrie’s 1873 statutory death record; William Guthrie’s 1880 statutory death record.
Captain John died on 12 November 1845. Ann Douglas survived him only briefly, dying on 2 December 1845.
Sources: established Guthrie family chronology and contemporary death/burial evidence used in the nineteenth-century family reconstruction.
The younger John seen at Guthrie Castle in the 1841 census succeeded after his father’s death in 1845. He had married Harriet Maude the previous year, on 23 July 1844 at Kirkden.
Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register marriage entry, Kirkden, 23 July 1844.
Their generation marks the most dramatic nineteenth-century transformation of the family seat, but the architectural sequence began earlier. A mansion had been built beside the old tower around 1760, and the two were joined by a connecting wing in 1818. John and Harriet inherited that already layered residence before the major Victorian remodeling of 1848.
By the time John Guthrie succeeded in 1845, the family seat already combined several periods of building. The old tower stood beside a mansion constructed around 1760, and the two were physically linked by a Tudor-Gothic addition in 1818.
In 1848, John Guthrie commissioned architect David Bryce to remodel and extend the residence. Bryce’s work enlarged the mansion and also altered the old tower, including the addition of an attic storey and battlements.
The castle seen today is therefore not a single-period medieval survival, nor was the Victorian work the first expansion beyond the tower. Its fabric preserves a sequence of medieval tower, eighteenth-century mansion, 1818 connection, and 1848 Bryce remodeling .
Source: Historic Environment Scotland — Guthrie Castle Designed Landscape . HES records the c.1760 mansion, 1818 connection and David Bryce’s 1848 remodeling and extension.
The New Household in 1851
The 1851 census captures the next generation after the succession. At Guthrie were John Guthrie, described as a landed proprietor, his wife Harriet, their young daughter Harriet Maud, and John’s sister Margaret.
Source: 1851 Scotland Census, Guthrie household, parish of Guthrie.
A contemporary newspaper notice has been reported as recording the birth of a son on 22 December 1847. The child’s identity and later fate have not been tied to a parish, civil or burial record. Until the exact newspaper title and issue are recovered, this child should remain outside the securely documented family group. Source status: reported contemporary newspaper birth notice, 22 December 1847. Exact publication citation and corroborating record still sought.
Born 18 October 1850. She later married Arthur William McKinstry at Bombay on 30 December 1882. Sources: 1851 Scotland Census and later marriage record, Bombay, 30 December 1882.
Baptized 1 May 1852. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism.
Baptized 10 October 1853. Source: Scotland’s People, Old Parish Register baptism.
Born 23 January 1855 and died the following day, 24 January 1855. His statutory birth and death records identify him as a son of John Guthrie and Harriet Maude. Sources: Scotland’s People, statutory birth and death registers, 23–24 January 1855.
Born 11 March 1856 in Edinburgh. He received the name John after the death of his infant elder brother the previous year. He survived to adulthood and became the eventual successor, 19th of Guthrie. Source: Scotland’s People, statutory birth record, Edinburgh, 11 March 1856. Some later derivative sources give a different March date; the statutory record is followed here.
William Mylne Guthrie was born 5 March 1858 at 6 Royal Circus, Edinburgh. He died there on 22 March 1858, aged only 17 days. His statutory death record identifies his parents as John Guthrie, Esq. of Guthrie, landed proprietor, and Harriet Guthrie, maiden surname Maude. Sources: Scotland’s People, statutory birth and death records, March 1858.
Why Two Sons Were Named John
The statutory records resolve what at first appears to be a duplicate child in the family. John and Harriet’s son John Guthrie was born on 23 January 1855 and died the following day.
When another son was born on 11 March 1856, the parents reused the name, calling him John Douglas Maude Guthrie. He survived to adulthood and eventually succeeded to Guthrie.
Reusing the name of a child who had died in infancy was a familiar naming practice and explains why two separate sons named John appear in the family records.
Sources: Scotland’s People, statutory birth and death records for John Guthrie, January 1855; statutory birth record of John Douglas Maude Guthrie, March 1856.
Another Infant Son — William Mylne Guthrie
The statutory records also clarify the fate of William Mylne Guthrie. He was born at 6 Royal Circus, Edinburgh, on 5 March 1858.
Only seventeen days later, on 22 March 1858, William died at the same address. His father, John Guthrie, reported the death.
His brief life explains why William does not appear with the family in later census records even though his birth and death are preserved in the statutory registers.
Sources: Scotland’s People, statutory birth and death records of William Mylne Guthrie, March 1858.
7 December 1877 — Death at Guthrie Castle
John Guthrie died at Guthrie Castle on 7 December 1877. His Scottish confirmation record describes the estate at approximately £17,986 9s 9d.
The executor was his nephew Lieutenant-Colonel Charles William Mylne, another reminder of the continuing connection with the family of John’s sister Elizabeth Jane Guthrie and Thomas Mylne. John’s widow, Harriet Maude or Guthrie, survived him.
Sources: Scotland’s People statutory death record, 7 December 1877; Scottish confirmation / probate record of John Guthrie of Guthrie, 1877.
Why This Phase Matters
By the nineteenth century the succession itself had become comparatively straightforward, but the wider family story continued to spread well beyond the person who inherited Guthrie Castle.
Margaret Whyte brought Muirhouse into the family orbit. Ann Douglas connected the family with Brigton. Elizabeth Jane married into the Mylne family, Helen Douglas Guthrie established a family with John de Havilland Utermarck, William pursued a military career, and several unmarried siblings made Balmuir House their later home.
The records of John and Harriet’s children also restore two very brief lives that later pedigrees can easily obscure: John Guthrie, who lived only one day in 1855, and William Mylne Guthrie, who lived seventeen days in 1858 . The death of the first John also explains why the name was reused for John Douglas Maude Guthrie the following year.
A reported son born in 1847 remains a separate research lead. Because his identity has not yet been established from a parish, civil or burial record, he is not used to reconstruct the secure succession.
Meanwhile, under John Guthrie and Harriet Maude, the already layered house at Guthrie was remodeled and enlarged by David Bryce in 1848, giving the family seat much of its Victorian character. The next generation would carry the family into an increasingly modern world of military service, London connections, and eventually the separation of family identity from ownership of the castle itself.
The Nineteenth-Century Succession
John Guthrie, 16th of Guthrie
m. Margaret Whyte
↓
Captain John Guthrie, 17th of Guthrie
m. Ann Douglas
↓
John Guthrie, 18th of Guthrie
m. Harriet Maude
↓
infant son John, 1855–1855
died before he could enter the succession
↓
John Douglas Maude Guthrie, 19th of Guthrie
The infant John belongs in the family tree but not in the numbered succession. His younger brother John Douglas Maude survived their father and became the next holder of Guthrie.
Sources: Scotland’s People parish, census and statutory records; 1877 death and confirmation evidence; nineteenth-century Guthrie family records.
War, Succession & the End of Family Ownership
John Douglas Maude Guthrie was born in Edinburgh on 11 March 1856, the year after the death of his infant elder brother John. He survived his father and continued the direct family succession as 19th of Guthrie.
He pursued a military career and served as an officer in the 19th Hussars. On 18 June 1884 he married Mary MacPherson Davidson at Billericay in Essex.
Mary was a daughter of Duncan Davidson of Tulloch and Mary MacKenzie, bringing another Highland landed family into the Guthrie marriage network.
Sources: Scotland’s People statutory birth record, Edinburgh, 11 March 1856; London Gazette , 24 November 1874, recording John Douglas Maude Guthrie’s first commission; later Army List and 19th Hussars records; England marriage evidence for John Douglas Maude Guthrie and Mary MacPherson Davidson, 18 June 1884.
Born in May 1885. Captain in the Irish Guards and styled younger of Guthrie. He married Vera Seton Gordon in 1911. Contemporary memorial evidence records that they left no family. He was killed on 18 May 1915 during the fighting at Festubert and therefore predeceased his father. Sources: Great War Dundee — John Neil Guthrie , reproducing contemporary newspaper and Arbroath Roll of Honour evidence; Commonwealth War Graves Commission record, Captain John Neil Guthrie, 1st Battalion Irish Guards, died 18 May 1915.
Born 6 August 1886. After the death of his elder brother John Neil, Ivan became the son who ultimately succeeded to Guthrie. Sources: civil birth and military records; NRS GD188/5/5 for the later succession following his father’s death.
Born 1887. Source: civil birth-registration and family records used in the current Guthrie reconstruction.
Baptized 10 March 1890 at Catterick. She later married Major Berkeley Gerald Hylton Jolliffe. Sources: parish baptism record; later marriage and memorial evidence.
Born about 1891–1892. He served in the Rifle Brigade during the First World War and died on 13 April 1928 following injuries sustained in a point-to-point racing fall. Sources: military records; Guthrie family memorial inscription, which records him as fourth son of Captain and Mrs Guthrie and gives his death as 13 April 1928, aged 36.
Born 1894. Source: civil registration and established family records.
1915 — The Heir Dies at Festubert
John Douglas Maude’s eldest son, Captain John Neil Guthrie, younger of Guthrie, served with the 1st Battalion, Irish Guards during the First World War.
He had married Vera Seton Gordon in 1911, but contemporary memorial evidence records that the couple left no family.
John Neil was killed on 18 May 1915 during the fighting at Festubert. He was buried at Le Touret Military Cemetery, Richebourg-L’Avoué.
Like David Guthrie at Flodden four centuries earlier, John Neil belongs in the direct family pedigree but never entered the numbered succession. His death moved the eventual inheritance to his younger brother, Ivan Douglas Guthrie.
Sources: Great War Dundee — John Neil Guthrie ; Commonwealth War Graves Commission casualty record; Arbroath and District Roll of Honour 1914–1919.
27 January 1928 — Death in London
John Douglas Maude Guthrie died on 27 January 1928 in London.
Some derivative genealogies have associated his death with Forfarshire because Guthrie remained his territorial designation and Scottish residence. The probate evidence places the death itself in London.
His widow, Mary / Myra MacPherson Guthrie, was then associated with 8 Devonshire Terrace, Lancaster Gate. Scottish confirmation followed later that year.
Sources: England & Wales National Probate Calendar; Scottish confirmation records. The Guthrie family memorial also records John Guthrie of Guthrie, Captain 19th Hussars, dying 27 January 1928.
With John Neil dead, the succession passed after their father’s death in 1928 to his younger brother Ivan Douglas Guthrie.
Ivan pursued a military career. He transferred to the Indian Army and served with the 17th Cavalry. During the First World War he served overseas, was mentioned in despatches and was awarded the Military Cross.
His later career included service with the 10th Hussars and command of the 4th/5th Battalion, Black Watch.
Sources: London Gazette, 1 December 1911 , recording Ivan with the 17th Cavalry; London Gazette award notices cited in surviving military-medal documentation; military career summary preserved with Ivan’s medal group.
Contemporary legal records place Ivan firmly in the succession after his father’s death.
An Inland Revenue account dated 23 August 1929 concerns succession to movable property by Major Ivan Douglas Guthrie following the death of Captain John Douglas Maude Guthrie.
Source: National Records of Scotland, GD188/5/5, Inland Revenue succession account, 23 August 1929.
Did Ivan Disentail the Entire Guthrie Estate in 1928?
A 1928 Court of Session record describes Ivan Douglas Guthrie of Guthrie seeking authority in relation to certain entailed money in fee simple.
That wording should not automatically be expanded into a claim that Ivan disentailled every acre of the Guthrie lands or converted the whole landed estate into unrestricted ownership.
The record establishes what it actually says: entailed money was the subject of the application. A broader conclusion concerning all of the landed estate would require the corresponding titles and estate instruments.
Source: National Records of Scotland, CS272/5/171, Court of Session process concerning entailed money, 1928.
Ivan Douglas Guthrie & Kathleen Mona Gough
Ivan married Kathleen Mona Gough, daughter of Colonel the Hon. George Hugh Gough and Hilda Eve Moffatt, on 9 August 1921.
Their daughters would carry the senior genealogical line into the period in which family representation and ownership of Guthrie Castle finally separated.
Source: Burke’s Peerage / landed-family evidence for the Gough-Guthrie marriage, 9 August 1921; corroborated by later family and memorial records.
Born 1 June 1922 in London. Her birth record gives 5 West Halkin Street as the family address. After Ivan’s death she continued the senior genealogical line of this family. Sources: civil birth record; later deed-poll, memorial and family evidence.
Born 1924. She married into the Rattray family and died on 16 October 1963, predeceasing her father. Source: Guthrie family memorial inscription recording Christian as the younger daughter of Colonel Ivan and Mrs Guthrie of Guthrie and wife of Captain Rattray.
Military careers recur repeatedly in these later generations. John Douglas Maude served in the 19th Hussars; John Neil served and died with the Irish Guards; Ivan served with the 17th Cavalry, Indian Army and later the 10th Hussars.
Other members of the wider sibling group also served. Duncan Nigel Guthrie, for example, served in the Rifle Brigade during the First World War.
These careers carried the family far beyond Angus, connecting the later Guthries with England, France, India and the wider British military world while the territorial identity of Guthrie remained attached to the family.
Sources: London and Edinburgh Gazette military notices; Commonwealth War Graves Commission; Guthrie family memorial inscriptions; surviving military-service and medal records.
4 July 1964 — Death at Guthrie
Ivan Douglas Guthrie died on 4 July 1964 at Guthrie in Angus.
His probate record styles him Ivan Douglas Guthrie of Guthrie, Guthrie Castle. He was buried in the Guthrie family burial ground.
His younger daughter Christian had died the previous year. His surviving elder daughter, Moyra Irene, therefore continued the senior genealogical line.
Sources: Scottish death/probate evidence; Guthrie family memorial inscription: Ivan Douglas Guthrie of Guthrie, M.C., died 4 July 1964.
Moyra was born Moyra Irene Guthrie in London on 1 June 1922. During the Second World War she married Lieutenant Mark Henry Philips of the Coldstream Guards.
22 April 1944
Moyra Irene Guthrie, elder daughter of Ivan Douglas Guthrie of Guthrie, married Lieutenant Mark Henry Philips on 22 April 1944 at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, London.
Sources: wartime marriage announcement and England civil marriage registration, 1944.
Born in 1945. She later married Leonardo Bedini-Jacobini and became the mother of Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini and his younger brother Christian. Loetitia died in 1978, predeceasing her mother. Sources: later Guthrie family and memorial material; modern family notices concerning her son Alexander.
Named among Moyra’s children on her memorial. The spelling of her name varies in the records presently assembled. Source: memorial inscription of Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie.
Named among Moyra’s children. Source: memorial inscription of Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie.
Named among Moyra’s children. Source: memorial inscription of Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie.
1965 — Moyra Resumes the Name Guthrie
By deed poll dated 3 June 1965, Moyra Irene Guthrie, formerly known as Moyra Irene Philips, formally renounced and abandoned the surname Philips.
The deed poll was enrolled in the Supreme Court of Judicature on 15 June 1965. Notice of the change was subsequently published in the London Gazette.
Her later memorial styles her Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie. That contemporary family style is preferable here to imposing a peerage-style title that she did not need to use.
For continuity with the retrospective numbering employed throughout this profile, Moyra may be counted as the next representative after Ivan. The number should not be mistaken for a peerage title or for proof that every legal or heraldic dignity automatically followed the same path.
Source: London Gazette, 20 July 1965, p. 6988 . Deed Poll dated 3 June 1965 and enrolled 15 June 1965. Memorial evidence records the style Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie.
1981 — Guthrie Castle Leaves the Family
A decisive break came in 1981, when Guthrie Castle and its associated estate were sold out of the Guthrie family.
Historic Environment Scotland records that the family continued to live at the castle until 1981, when it was sold with planning permission for conversion into a timeshare holiday complex.
A secondary architectural history describes the sale as including approximately 395 acres. Because that acreage is not stated in the HES designation entry itself, it is best treated as a published secondary figure rather than as part of the official designation record.
The property was again on the market in 1984 and then entered a new period of non-Guthrie ownership.
The 1981 sale ended the family’s ownership of the historic seat, but it did not end either the genealogical family line or the territorial family identity.
Sources: Historic Environment Scotland — Guthrie Castle Designed Landscape , recording the 1981 sale and timeshare planning permission; The DiCamillo Companion — Guthrie Castle , secondary house-history source for the approximately 395-acre sale figure.
The Family
The senior genealogical line continued through Moyra and, after her death, through the descendants of her predeceased eldest daughter Loetitia.
The Estate
Guthrie Castle and its associated lands passed into non-family ownership in 1981.
The Dignities
Chiefship, heraldic recognition, territorial style and any baronial interest require separate evidence rather than being assumed to follow ownership of the castle.
22 June 1984 — Death of Moyra Irene Guthrie
Moyra Irene Guthrie died on 22 June 1984.
Her memorial preserves both her family identity and territorial style: “Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie.” It also names her as the mother of Loetitia, Rosanagh, Flavia and Dermot.
Moyra’s eldest daughter Loetitia Dawn had already died in 1978. The senior genealogical line therefore continued through Loetitia’s descendants, including Moyra’s grandson Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini.
That genealogical conclusion should be kept distinct from the later question of formal heraldic or chiefly recognition, which belongs to the next phase of the profile.
Source: Guthrie family monumental inscription: Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie, died 22 June 1984 ; memorial names children Loetitia, Rosanagh, Flavia and Dermot.
Why This Phase Matters
The twentieth century produces another important break between the family tree and the succession history.
John Neil was the eldest son and heir but died before succeeding. Ivan therefore followed their father. Ivan left no surviving son, and the senior genealogical line continued through his elder daughter Moyra.
Moyra’s own eldest daughter Loetitia then predeceased her. The senior genealogical line consequently passed across another generation through Loetitia’s sons.
Most importantly, the 1981 sale of Guthrie Castle separated the family from ownership of the historic seat. From this point forward, questions that had once seemed almost interchangeable — Who represents the family? Who owns the estate? Who bears a territorial or heraldic style? Who holds any associated dignity? — must be answered independently.
The Twentieth-Century Succession
John Douglas Maude Guthrie, 19th of Guthrie
↓
John Neil Guthrie
eldest son and heir — killed 18 May 1915 before succeeding
↓
Ivan Douglas Guthrie, 20th of Guthrie
↓
Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie
senior family line continues through her descendants
1981 — castle and estate pass into non-family ownership
From this point the history of the family no longer runs in parallel with ownership of Guthrie Castle. The next stage concerns the continuation of the senior genealogical and territorial family identity, while heraldic recognition and any chiefly or baronial status must be demonstrated by their own evidence.
Principal evidence: John Neil’s First World War service and death records; NRS GD188/5/5; Moyra’s 1965 deed poll; Guthrie family memorial inscriptions; Historic Environment Scotland 1981 sale history.
The Family After Guthrie Castle
For continuity with the retrospective numbering used throughout this profile, Moyra Irene Guthrie is counted here as 21st of Guthrie.
That number does not imply that she used “21st of Guthrie” as an official contemporary title. Her own family style is more securely represented by the wording preserved on her memorial: Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie.
The memorial also records her death on 22 June 1984. Some later clan and genealogical accounts give 3 June 1984, but the memorial inscription is followed here as the stronger direct family evidence.
By the time of Moyra’s death, Guthrie Castle itself had already passed into non-family ownership. Continuation of the family was therefore no longer dependent upon possession of the historic seat.
Sources: Guthrie family memorial inscription for Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie, recording her death on 22 June 1984; 1965 London Gazette deed-poll notice confirming her resumption of the surname Guthrie.
Moyra’s eldest daughter, Loetitia Dawn Philips, married Leonardo Bedini-Jacobini. Their sons included Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini and his younger brother Christian.
Loetitia died in 1978, six years before her mother. She therefore never became the senior living representative of this line in her own right.
Sources: modern Guthrie family and clan biographical material; 2020 obituary material for Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini, identifying his parents as Leonardo Bedini-Jacobini and Loetitia Dawn Philips and naming Christian as his younger brother.
The Senior Genealogical Line Continues Through a Predeceased Daughter
Moyra’s death in 1984 did not erase Loetitia’s place in the genealogy merely because Loetitia had died first. Her descendants continued her position in the senior line.
Modern family and clan accounts accordingly carry the line through Loetitia to her elder son, Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini.
Loetitia therefore belongs between Moyra and Alexander in the genealogical chain even though she was never assigned a number in the retrospective sequence used on this profile.
The language here is deliberately genealogical. Alexander’s later heraldic status is independently documented by the Court of the Lord Lyon and does not need to be inferred simply from this descent.
Evidence basis: documented descent through Loetitia; modern family and clan succession accounts; Alexander’s independent 2000 Lord Lyon matriculation discussed below.
Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini was the elder son of Loetitia Dawn Philips and Leonardo Bedini-Jacobini. Through his mother he was the grandson of Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie.
Family and clan sources treated Alexander as Moyra’s successor in the senior Guthrie line. Unlike many earlier modern claims, however, Alexander’s position also has a particularly clear independent heraldic record.
Sources: Clan Guthrie obituary for Alexander Ivan Bedini Guthrie of Guthrie, 2020; Court of the Lord Lyon record described below.
On 10 July 2000, Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini matriculated arms in the Public Register of All Arms and Bearings in Scotland.
Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini
Matriculated 10 July 2000
Volume 82 / 62
The Court of the Lord Lyon subsequently included GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE in its published Roll of the Chiefs and Heads of Territorial Houses, listing the styles or ordinary names in which arms had been officially matriculated.
The roll does not merely come from a later clan pedigree. It is an official Lyon record giving Alexander’s name, matriculation date and register reference.
Family and clan sources commonly count Alexander as 22nd of Guthrie and identify him as the 22nd Chief of Clan Guthrie. For this profile, the most precise contemporary documentary style is the one actually printed in the Lyon roll: GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE.
Source: Court of the Lord Lyon, Roll of the Chiefs and Heads of Territorial Houses, published in the Edinburgh Gazette: GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE — Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini — 10 July 2000 — Volume 82/62.
What Happened in 2000? — And What Did Not?
Older versions of the Guthrie pedigree have sometimes described Alexander as having been “infeft” in 2000. That terminology is misleading.
Infeftment belongs to the legal history of land tenure and possession. Alexander did not reacquire Guthrie Castle or the lands of Guthrie in 2000; the castle had already been outside the family for almost two decades.
What occurred was the matriculation of arms and the official recording of GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE by the Court of the Lord Lyon.
This is heraldic evidence. It is not a sasine, land conveyance, reacquisition of the castle, or proof that every dignity historically associated with the estate accompanied the matriculation.
Source: Court of the Lord Lyon, Roll of the Chiefs and Heads of Territorial Houses; Public Register reference 82/62.
And What About the Barony?
Alexander’s 2000 Lord Lyon entry should not automatically be described as a grant or confirmation of a Barony of Guthrie.
The published Lyon roll is unusually helpful because its symbols are explained beneath the list. A dagger (†) indicates that arms were matriculated with a chapeau in respect of the armiger being a Minor Baron.
The entry for GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE carries no dagger. The published record therefore documents Alexander’s matriculated arms and the style Guthrie of Guthrie, but does not itself document a minor-baron recognition.
The same entry does carry an asterisk (*). The Lyon roll explains that this concerns use of the complete designation as the person’s ordinary surname or signature. It is not a symbol denoting the barony.
This is why the profile uses 22nd of Guthrie as part of the retrospective family numbering but does not automatically convert the documented evidence into the title “22nd Baron of Guthrie.”
Source: Court of the Lord Lyon, published Roll of the Chiefs and Heads of Territorial Houses, explanatory notes to the asterisk (*) and dagger (†), together with the Guthrie entry dated 10 July 2000.
23 March 2020 — Death of Alexander Guthrie
Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini, Guthrie of Guthrie, died in London on 23 March 2020, aged 52.
Contemporary obituary material identifies him as 22nd Chief of Clan Guthrie and records that he left no children.
His younger brother, Christian, therefore continued the immediate senior genealogical line.
Sources: Clan Guthrie announcement and contemporary obituary material for Alexander Ivan Bedini Guthrie of Guthrie, died 23 March 2020.
Following Alexander’s death without children, Christian, his younger brother, continued the immediate senior genealogical line.
Modern clan and family sources identify him as Christian Guthrie of Guthrie and commonly describe him as the 23rd Chief of Clan Guthrie or 23rd of Guthrie.
Those descriptions are retained here as modern clan and family usage. They should not be presented as though the same documentary record exists for Christian that exists for Alexander’s 2000 matriculation.
Source status: contemporary clan and family accounts identify Christian as Alexander’s younger brother and succeeding family representative. A post-2020 Lord Lyon matriculation equivalent to Alexander’s 2000 entry has not yet been identified in the sources reviewed for this profile.
Clan Succession and Heraldic Recognition Are Not the Same
Alexander’s position has unusually clear official evidence in the 2000 Lord Lyon matriculation. The succession following his death is a related but separate evidentiary question.
Modern clan sources identify Christian as Alexander’s successor and as the 23rd Chief. However, a corresponding post-2020 Lord Lyon matriculation has not yet been located for this audit.
There is an additional reason for caution. The present online membership list of the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs still displays Alexander Guthrie of Guthrie under Guthrie, despite Alexander’s documented death in 2020.
That listing is therefore evidently not current enough to serve as independent confirmation of Christian’s present heraldic status. It should not be used either to reject the clan succession or to prove it.
The safest presentation remains: Christian continues the senior genealogical line and is identified as the succeeding chief in modern clan usage; equivalent post-2020 Lyon documentation remains to be located.
Comparison sources: modern Clan Guthrie accounts naming Christian as successor; current online Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs membership roster, which still lists Alexander Guthrie of Guthrie and is therefore demonstrably stale for this family.
One Family Story Becomes Three Separate Histories
For much of the period covered by this profile, the person called of Guthrie could also be closely associated with the estate, the castle, the family succession and landed status. By the modern period those histories had separated.
Genealogical & Clan Succession
The senior genealogical line continued through Moyra, her predeceased daughter Loetitia, Loetitia’s son Alexander, and then Alexander’s younger brother Christian. Modern clan sources identify Christian as the succeeding chief.
Territorial & Heraldic Style
In 2000 the Court of the Lord Lyon officially recorded GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE in Alexander’s matriculation of arms. Equivalent post-2020 documentation for Christian has not yet been located in this audit.
Castle & Estate
Guthrie Castle had already passed into non-family ownership in 1981. The house and modern estate therefore have a property history separate from the genealogical and heraldic history of the Guthrie family.
Guthrie Castle Today
Guthrie Castle remains a private residence in Angus. The castle’s current official website identifies it as the home of Dan Peña and his family.
The modern estate is described as approximately 156 acres, including a private loch, the historic walled garden, a golf course and other modern estate features.
That 156-acre property should not be assumed to represent the historical extent of the lands or Barony of Guthrie. Centuries of conveyances and later property changes separate the modern estate from the much older legal geography.
The castle is not open to the general public. Its official site states that it is not operating as a hotel, wedding venue or tourist attraction; access is limited to invited participants in the owner’s private seminar programme.
Modern ownership of the castle does not confer genealogical representation of the Guthrie family, just as modern family representation does not imply ownership of the castle.
Current source: official Guthrie Castle website, reviewed September 2026 — private residence of Dan Peña, approximately 156-acre estate, with no general public access.
The Modern Family Line
Ivan Douglas Guthrie, 20th of Guthrie
↓
Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie
counted here retrospectively as 21st of Guthrie
↓
Loetitia Dawn Philips
eldest daughter — predeceased Moyra in 1978
↓
Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini
Guthrie of Guthrie
commonly 22nd of Guthrie / 22nd Chief
Lord Lyon matriculation 10 July 2000
↓
Christian Guthrie
senior genealogical line after 2020
modern clan usage: 23rd Chief / commonly 23rd of Guthrie
equivalent post-2020 Lyon record not yet located
This final sequence deliberately distinguishes genealogical descent from formal heraldic evidence. Alexander has a directly documented 2000 matriculation. Christian’s succession is presently supported by modern family and clan usage while equivalent later Lyon evidence remains an open research target.
Principal evidence: Moyra’s memorial and 1965 deed poll; Alexander’s 2000 Court of the Lord Lyon matriculation, Volume 82/62; Alexander’s 2020 obituary; modern clan succession accounts.
Why the Modern Period Matters
The final generations bring the central lesson of this profile into especially sharp focus.
The family is not the estate, the estate is not the barony, and none of those things is automatically identical with heraldic recognition or chiefship.
Earlier centuries sometimes allowed those identities to overlap so closely that later genealogies treated them as interchangeable. The modern history makes their differences unmistakable.
Alexander’s 2000 matriculation provides a particularly good example. It documents GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE in the official heraldic record without restoring ownership of Guthrie Castle and without, by itself, documenting a minor barony.
Christian’s succession illustrates the reverse problem: a genealogical and clan succession can be reported in modern family usage even while the corresponding formal heraldic record remains to be located.
That is also why the numbering used throughout this profile is best understood as a way of navigating the long history of Guthrie representatives. It is not an official sequence of peerage titles, and it is not a substitute for the actual family tree, heraldic record or property history.
Family & Property Timeline
How to Read the Timeline
Family Succession Land / Estate Legal Transfer Unresolved / Qualified
Alexander & Marjory Guthrie at Kincaldrum
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Marjory / Mary Guthrie emerge as the earliest Kincaldrum couple whose family can presently be reconstructed in detail.
Family KincaldrumEarly Documentary Evidence for Kincaldrum
RMS Charter 834 records the royal confirmation of a charter granted on 24 May 1465 by William de Ruthven to Master David Guthre of Kincaldrum and Jonete his wife. The Crown confirmed that grant on 22 June 1465.
Kincaldrum Charter → Crown ConfirmationSir David Guthrie Brings Guthrie into the Family
The Crown grants Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and his heirs the lands of Guthrie, following their resignation by David, Earl of Crawford and Lord Lindsay. This is the point at which the Kincaldrum and Guthrie landed histories converge.
Acquisition of Guthrie 1st of GuthrieSir David Dies — Sir Alexander Succeeds
Sir David was alive on 20 May 1474 but was deceased by 23 August, when his son and heir Sir Alexander Guthrie appears in the succession.
Father → Son 2nd of GuthrieKincaldrum and Guthrie Begin to Divide
Sir Alexander settles Kincaldrum upon his son Alexander while the principal succession to Guthrie proceeds through his eldest son David and David’s descendants.
Kincaldrum Branch Family DivisionFlodden Breaks the Expected Succession
Sir Alexander Guthrie and his eldest son David, fiar of Guthrie, both die at Flodden. David never becomes a numbered holder.
The succession passes across a generation to David’s son Andrew Guthrie, 3rd of Guthrie.
Grandfather → Grandson 3rd of GuthrieAlexander Receives the Fee During Andrew’s Lifetime
Andrew’s son and apparent heir Alexander Guthrie receives the fee of the estate while Andrew retains his liferent.
Resignation / Regrant Future 4th of GuthrieThe Future 5th Receives Guthrie During His Father’s Lifetime
Alexander, 4th of Guthrie, resigns the core barony for regrant to his son Alexander Guthrie. Hiltoun and Langlands are expressly excluded.
Resignation / Regrant Future 5th of GuthrieAlexander, 4th of Guthrie, Is Killed
Alexander, 4th of Guthrie, is slain in October 1587. His son Alexander Guthrie, who had already received the core barony by the 1583 settlement, now becomes the senior holder counted here as 5th of Guthrie.
Father → Son 5th of GuthrieThe Future 6th Receives the Fee During His Father’s Lifetime
Alexander Guthrie senior of that Ilk, the 5th of Guthrie, grants the core barony lands to his son and apparent heir Alexander Guthrie junior and the younger Alexander’s wife, Jean Leighton, in fulfilment of their marriage contract.
This is a lifetime settlement, not evidence that the elder Alexander had died.
Lifetime Settlement Future 6th of GuthrieTwo Generations of Alexander Are Still Living
The Privy Council distinguishes Alexander Guthrie, elder of that Ilk from Alexander Guthrie, younger of that Ilk. This confirms that Alexander, 5th of Guthrie, survived the 1597 settlement; his exact death date remains unresolved.
5th & Future 6th 5th’s Death Date UnresolvedThe Succession Moves Sideways
After Alexander, 6th of Guthrie, dies without a surviving male heir to the estate, his brother William Guthrie of Memus is retoured heir on 20 June 1616.
Brother → Brother 7th of GuthrieDavid of Kincaldrum Acquires Interests in Guthrie Lands
An instrument of sasine places David Guthrie of Kincaldrum in possession of lands including Heughhead, Mylntoun, Eastertoun and Kirktoun of Guthrie. His involvement with the estate therefore begins before the final irredeemable sale.
Guthrie Lands SasinePatrick Guthrie’s Interest Grows from Wadset to Ownership
David’s brother, Rev. Patrick Guthrie of Logie-Buchan, acquires interests in Guthrie through wadsets, culminating in an absolute and irredeemable disposition on 12 December 1633.
Wadset Absolute Disposition 9th of GuthrieWilliam Sells Guthrie to the Kincaldrum Branch
On 10 September 1629, William of Memus, with the consent of Isabella Fenton, sells the principal lands of Guthrie irredeemably to David Guthrie of Kincaldrum. Crown confirmation follows on 24 July 1630.
William had male descendants. The transfer was therefore a sale, not the consequence of an extinct male line.
Sale Kincaldrum Reconnection 8th of GuthrieThe Family Sells Kincaldrum
Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum, son of David, sells Kincaldrum to Sir John Blair of Balgillo.
The branch that had recently acquired Guthrie now parts with the older estate from which it had taken its territorial identity.
Kincaldrum SoldPeter Guthrie Appears as Patrick’s Son and Heir
Great Seal evidence in 1636 identifies Peter Guthrie, then of that Ilk, as the son and heir of the deceased Rev. Patrick Guthrie of Logie-Buchan.
A later Fasti account instead says that a son named Patrick was served heir on 24 May 1636. Until that underlying service of heir is examined, the discrepancy should remain visible.
Son & Heir in RMS 10th of Guthrie Patrick / Peter Source ConflictPeter Resigns — Bishop John Acquires Guthrie
Peter resigns the estate, and the Crown grants Guthrie to John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray, and Nichola Wood in conjunct infeftment.
Resignation / Crown Grant 11th of GuthriePatrick Guthrie Is Fiar of That Ilk
Bishop John’s second son Patrick Guthrie is explicitly styled fiar of that ilk while exercising the patronage of the kirk of Guthrie.
Patrick belongs in the legal succession even though he is not assigned a separate number among the eventual senior holders.
Fiar Later Position RestructuredBathiah Guthrie Marries Francis Guthrie of Gagie
Bishop John’s daughter Bathiah / Betty Guthrie marries Francis Guthrie of Gagie, reconnecting the bishop’s immediate family with the older male Guthrie line descended from Alexander, 4th of Guthrie, and Isobel Wood.
Marriage Gagie ReunionBishop John Reorders the Future Succession
After Francis and Bathiah’s marriage and before Bishop John’s death, the bishop settles Guthrie upon Francis and Bathiah in conjunct fee, placing their line ahead of Patrick while retaining Patrick and the male heirs of his body among the substitute successors.
Family Settlement Patrick’s Earlier FeeBishop John Dies at Guthrie
Rev. James Guthrie of Arbirlot records that his brother, the former Bishop of Moray, died at his own place of Guthrie and was buried beside his wife.
End of Bishop John’s TenureThe Francis–Bathiah Settlement Is Crown Confirmed
The earlier settlement made by Bishop John is later confirmed by the Crown, preserving the carefully structured destinations through Francis and Bathiah, Francis’s male heirs, Patrick’s line, and further substitutes.
Settlement Confirmed Francis Counted as 12thJohn Guthrie Continues the Rejoined Line
John Guthrie, son of Francis and Bathiah, carries forward both the Gagie male line and Bishop John’s immediate family descent.
13th of GuthrieJohn Guthrie Marries Cecil Carnegie
The marriage contract with Cecil Carnegie of the Balnamoon family establishes another important Angus alliance.
Marriage AllianceJames Guthrie Is John’s Only Surviving Son
The marriage contract of James Guthrie and Margaret Turnbull identifies James as the only son of John Guthrie of that Ilk.
14th of Guthrie Marriage ContractJohn Guthrie Succeeds His Father James
After James Guthrie’s death, John Guthrie and Jean Hodge continue the increasingly regular father-to-son succession.
Father → Son 15th of GuthrieMargaret Whyte Brings Muirhouse into the Family Story
The next John Guthrie marries Margaret Whyte, an only child whose marriage brings Muirhouse into the family’s landed interests.
16th of Guthrie MuirhouseCaptain John, Younger of Guthrie, Marries Ann Douglas
The contemporary marriage record styles him younger of Guthrie, a genuine historical designation distinguishing the heir from his father.
Heir During Father’s Lifetime Brigton ConnectionCaptain John Becomes the Senior Holder
Following his father’s death, Captain John continues the direct succession as 17th of Guthrie.
Father → Son 17th of GuthrieJohn Guthrie, 18th of Guthrie, Succeeds
John Guthrie, born 23 July 1805, succeeds his father and continues the nineteenth-century direct line.
18th of GuthrieDavid Bryce Remodels and Extends Guthrie Castle
David Bryce remodels and enlarges a residence that already combined the old tower with an eighteenth-century mansion, joined in 1818. The 1848 work gives the house much of its later Victorian character while retaining earlier fabric.
Castle Architectural TransformationJohn Douglas Maude Guthrie Becomes 19th of Guthrie
The documented surviving son John Douglas Maude Guthrie succeeds after his father’s death.
Father → Son 19th of GuthrieJohn Neil Guthrie Dies at Festubert
The eldest son, Captain John Neil Guthrie of the Irish Guards, dies during the First World War before succeeding his father.
His younger brother Ivan becomes the eventual heir.
Heir Predeceases FatherIvan Douglas Guthrie Succeeds
Following the death of John Douglas Maude Guthrie, Ivan Douglas Guthrie becomes the senior representative of the family.
Brother Replaces Predeceased Heir 20th of GuthrieMoyra Irene Continues the Family Line
Ivan dies without a surviving son. His elder daughter, Moyra Irene, becomes the next senior family representative.
Father → Daughter 21st of GuthrieMoyra Resumes the Guthrie Name
By deed poll dated 3 June 1965, Moyra Irene Philips resumes the surname Guthrie; the deed poll is enrolled on 15 June. She is later memorialized as Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie.
Family IdentityGuthrie Castle Leaves the Family
Guthrie Castle and a substantial surrounding estate are sold out of the Guthrie family.
From this point, ownership of the castle and continuation of the family are permanently separate histories.
Estate Sale End of Family OwnershipThe Modern Family Line Continues Through Loetitia’s Son
Moyra’s eldest daughter Loetitia Dawn Philips had died in 1978. Modern family and clan accounts continue the senior line through Loetitia’s elder son, Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini.
Through Predeceased Daughter Commonly 22nd of GuthrieGUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE Is Officially Matriculated
Alexander matriculates arms in the Public Register of All Arms and Bearings in Scotland under the style GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE.
This is a heraldic matriculation, not an infeftment in the lands, a reacquisition of Guthrie Castle, or by itself a grant or confirmation of the Barony of Guthrie.
Lord Lyon Matriculation Not Estate Ownership Not a Baronial GrantChristian Guthrie Continues the Family Line
Alexander dies without children. His younger brother Christian Guthrie continues the immediate senior family line and is identified by modern clan sources as his successor.
Brother → Brother Commonly 23rd of Guthrie Later Lyon Matriculation Not Yet LocatedThe Pattern Behind the Timeline
Seen all at once, the succession bears little resemblance to an unbroken father-to-son pedigree. Guthrie passes through sons, a grandson, brothers, collateral branches, daughters and a grandson through a predeceased daughter.
Just as importantly, possession of the estate changes through sale, wadset, absolute disposition, resignation and regrant, marriage property, and deliberate family settlement.
The numbered sequence remains useful because it gives readers a way to identify successive representatives across nearly six centuries. But the timeline makes clear why those numbers cannot substitute for either the family tree or the property history.
Questions Still Open
Reconstructing this family from contemporary records has resolved a number of long-standing pedigree problems, but it has also exposed questions that older genealogies sometimes answered more confidently than the surviving evidence allows. In several cases the question itself has changed as new evidence has been found. These are the principal problems still worth pursuing.
The earliest secure territorial anchor presently identified is Master Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum on 21 July 1450.
By the later 1450s, Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum appears in his own right. A charter granted on 24 May 1465 by William de Ruthven names Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum and Jonete his wife; it received royal confirmation on 22 June 1465.
David is strongly reconstructed as belonging to the family of the earlier Master Alexander, but the exact surviving contemporary bridge between the earliest Kincaldrum households is still incomplete.
A James Guthrie is directly documented as David’s brother in 1457. Other traditional placements, particularly the wider family attributed to Alexander and Marjory / Margery, do not all rest on evidence of equal strength.
What would help: additional Kincaldrum charters, sasines and family settlements from the 1440s–1460s naming fathers, sons, heirs, brothers or spouses within these earliest households.
Sources: Register of the Bishopric of Brechin , Appendix Cartae Originales XLII, pp. 79–80, 21 July 1450; RMS II, Charter 834 , underlying charter 24 May 1465, confirmed 22 June 1465; Arbroath Abbey Register II, 7 November 1457, identifying James as David’s brother.
Contemporary evidence securely documents a wife named Jonete. Sir Alexander Guthrie is likewise securely documented as Sir David’s son and heir.
One point still requires re-verification. Existing Guthrie summaries have stated that a later charter explicitly identifies Jonete as Sir Alexander’s mother, but the exact primary instrument supporting that maternity has not yet been pinned down again during this audit. Until it is, the wife and son are individually secure while the explicit mother-son link should remain a record-retrieval target.
Jonete’s surname is also unresolved. Later family evidence strongly supports the traditional identification with the Dundas family, but no contemporary record yet reviewed supplies that surname.
Early Panmure family material reports an earlier marriage to an unnamed Maule woman and says that several children had been born before the marriage was dissolved. George Crawfurd later contradicted that account by saying the first marriage produced no issue.
Sir David’s documented natural son Malcolm Guthrie of Balnabreich adds another unresolved parentage question, but Malcolm should not be assigned to the reported Maule marriage without evidence.
What would help: the exact primary record explicitly naming Jonete as Sir Alexander’s mother; a contemporary record giving Jonete’s surname; a marriage, papal, consanguinity or annulment record concerning the Maule wife; or evidence assigning individual children securely to the reported first marriage.
Sources: NRS RH1/6/89–91, documenting Jonete as Sir David’s spouse; BIO: Sir David Guthrie ; early Panmure family material and George Crawfurd’s later, conflicting account; Balnabreich charter evidence for Malcolm as Sir David’s natural son.
The chronology demonstrates that Margaret Lyon could not have been the mother of all Sir Alexander Guthrie’s children. His son David was already his apparent heir by 7 February 1495/96, while Margaret’s own marriage chronology with James Rynd was only just ending.
David therefore certainly belongs to an earlier family.
Alexander of Kincaldrum is another documented son. A charter of 1539 identifies Thomas Guthrie as Alexander’s brother-german, meaning Alexander and Thomas shared both father and mother. Their mother is not named in that record.
George Guthrie is expressly called another son of Sir Alexander in the 1508 Kincaldrum settlement, but that charter does not identify George’s mother. His placement with the earlier family remains a chronological reconstruction rather than an explicit maternity statement.
By contrast, the 1518 evidence identifies Elizabeth Guthrie as Margaret Lyon’s daughter, giving us at least one child securely associated with the later marriage.
The unidentified Lady of Guthrie recorded on 20 October 1483 remains an intriguing clue. She may have been Sir David’s widow Jonete or Sir Alexander’s unidentified earlier wife. She cannot have been Margaret Lyon.
What would help: a marriage contract, charter reserving a wife’s liferent, papal record, sasine or other document naming Sir Alexander’s wife before Margaret Lyon.
Sources: RMS II, Charter 3259 , Sir Alexander’s 1508 family settlement; RMS III, Charter 2085 , Thomas as brother-german of Alexander of Kincaldrum; Acts of the Lords of Council , Margaret Lyon chronology; Arbroath Abbey Register II , Lady of Guthrie, 20 October 1483.
The older pedigree placed a John Guthrie of Hiltoun among the children of Sir Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon. The documentary evidence now excludes that simple solution.
More than one early John is involved. A John Guthrie of Hiltoun was already an adult territorial landholder by the opening years of the sixteenth century, too early to be a child of Sir Alexander and Margaret’s later marriage.
A later John Guthrie of Eassie was explicitly recognized on 3 November 1544 as heir of the deceased David Guthrie of Eassie. He therefore had a documented father of his own and cannot be inserted into Sir Alexander and Margaret’s family.
The Eassie family’s Hiltoun association also began before that later John’s 1545–1546 transactions. In 1534, David Guthrie of Eassie already held hereditary interests in Hiltoun and Easttown of Guthrie.
Yet in 1546 the main-line Alexander Guthrie still called the later John his “beloved kinsman.” The kinship was real. What remains unknown is the precise genealogical bridge.
What would help: earlier Eassie and Hiltoun title records; clearer evidence connecting the successive Johns, Alexander and David within the Eassie household; and records showing exactly how that family was related to the principal Kincaldrum/Guthrie line.
Sources: Guthrie of Eassie & Hiltoun ; NRS GD16/3/42, 3 November 1544; RMS III, Charter 1386 , 1534 Eassie/Hiltoun interests; NLS Ch.14167–14169, 1545–1546.
Older pedigrees placed Alexander’s death in 1597, but that date is no longer tenable. On 27 August 1597 he was alive and making a lifetime settlement for his son Alexander and Jean Leighton.
On 20 December 1600, Privy Council records still distinguish Alexander Guthrie, elder of that Ilk and Alexander Guthrie, younger of that Ilk. The elder Alexander was therefore still living.
One part of this problem has now been resolved. Samuel Guthrie, apprenticed in 1601, and Hercules Guthrie, apprenticed in 1606, were each explicitly called sons of Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk. Their adult chronology places them with Alexander, 5th of Guthrie, rather than with the younger Alexander and Jean Leighton, whose marriage settlement dates only from 1597.
A separate identity question remains in Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, which calls Jean Guthrie, mother of Patrick Lindsay born in 1566, a daughter of “Alexander Guthrie, fiar of that Ilk.” The description does not itself distinguish which Alexander was intended.
What would help: a testament, retour, sasine or burial record fixing Alexander 5th’s death, and the underlying evidence behind Fasti’s identification of Jean Guthrie’s father.
Sources: RMS VI, Charter 639 , 1597 lifetime settlement; Privy Council, 20 December 1600; Edinburgh Apprenticeship Records — Samuel & Hercules ; Fasti VII, p. 322 , Jean Guthrie.
Contemporary Great Seal evidence later in 1636 explicitly identifies Peter Guthrie, then of that Ilk, as the son and heir of the deceased Rev. Patrick Guthrie of Logie-Buchan.
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ instead states that Patrick had a son named Patrick who was served heir on 24 May 1636.
The Great Seal evidence gives us no reason at present to create an otherwise undocumented sequence of two sons named Patrick and Peter. The discrepancy belongs first at the level of the sources: either the later Fasti account has misreported the Christian name, or the original service contains wording that has not yet been understood.
The broader property sequence involving Rev. Patrick is also not completely closed. The reported 1624 wadsets and 12 December 1633 absolute disposition still need their underlying instruments recovered and examined.
What would help: above all, the original 24 May 1636 service of heir / retour; also the underlying 1624 property contracts and the 12 December 1633 disposition to Rev. Patrick.
Sources: RMS IX, Charter 616 , Peter as Patrick’s son and heir; Fasti VI, pp. 141, 196 & 319 , reporting a son Patrick served heir 24 May 1636; Kincaldrum property source trail .
Bishop John’s immediate parentage is no longer the central problem. He was a son of Patrick Guthrie, goldsmith of St Andrews, and Margaret Raitt, and brother of Rev. James Guthrie of Kinnell and Arbirlot.
The corrected 1773 Lyon Office pedigree carries the ancestry backward through:
William Guthrie of Hiltoun
↓
David Guthrie of Hiltoun
↓
Charles Guthrie of St Andrews
↓
Patrick Guthrie, goldsmith
↓
John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray
That corrected pedigree solves the severe generational compression in the earlier Lyon version and places Bishop John in the proper generation. It is, however, a retrospective pedigree rather than a set of contemporary charters proving every step.
Independent evidence is strongest from Patrick’s generation forward. The earlier William → David → Charles → Patrick links still need contemporary confirmation, and the corrected pedigree itself does not identify William of Hiltoun’s father.
What would help: contemporary records directly establishing the Charles-to-Patrick relationship and the earlier William-to-David and David-to-Charles links, together with evidence identifying William of Hiltoun’s own parentage.
Sources: Guthrie of Craigie — corrected 1773 Lyon Office pedigree ; Bishop John Research Sketch ; Fasti VII, p. 351 and Volume VIII corrigendum, p. 710, correcting Hart to Rait.
On 28 September 1643, Bishop John’s son Patrick was explicitly styled “fiar of that ilk.”
Bishop John’s later settlement nevertheless placed Francis Guthrie of Gagie and Bathiah Guthrie ahead of Patrick , while retaining Patrick himself and the male heirs of his body among the substitute successors.
The settlement therefore establishes that Patrick’s earlier priority had been superseded, but it does not tell us exactly how.
A resignation, reconveyance, consent, fresh family settlement or another legal instrument may once have altered the fee. No such intervening record has yet been identified.
What would help: a resignation, reconveyance, family contract, charter, sasine or other instrument explaining the transition between Patrick’s documented status as fiar in 1643 and Bishop John’s later Francis–Bathiah settlement.
Sources: NRS GD188/14/1, 28 September 1643; RMS XI, Charter 565 , preserving the later remainder sequence.
Was Rev. James Guthrie of Stirling a Son of William Guthrie of Memus?
A newly important clue in Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VIII, identifies Rev. James Guthrie of Stirling — the Covenanter minister executed in 1661 — as:
son of William Guthrie of Memes
and
brother of Alexander Guthrie of Memes
Fasti does something unusually valuable: it cites a specific contemporary source for that statement — General Register of Sasines, Second Series, 30 April 1659 .
The claim has become much more significant because the present audit independently shows that William Guthrie of Memus, 7th of Guthrie had an eldest son named Alexander and at least one additional son. The names and territorial designation therefore fit the family structure remarkably well.
They do not yet prove the identification. Other Guthries were associated with Memus / Memes / Memys, and a later 1680 record involving John Guthrie of Easter Memus and his brother James demonstrates why the territorial designation cannot be used by itself to merge separate families.
The underlying 1659 sasine has not yet been independently located and read. Until it is, the parentage of the Stirling minister remains a potentially major discovery rather than an established addition to the Guthrie of Guthrie pedigree.
Research priority: recover and examine the General Register of Sasines, Second Series, 30 April 1659 ; identify every William and Alexander Guthrie styled Memus / Memes / Memys in the relevant period; and compare that evidence directly with William Guthrie, 7th of Guthrie, and his documented son Alexander.
Source: Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VIII, p. 393 , citing General Register of Sasines, Second Series, 30 April 1659. Related but distinct Memus evidence: NRS GD16/19/2, 27 November 1680.
A Side Quest Worth Pursuing: Henry Guthrie of Montrose & Hiltoun
One smaller problem may ultimately help resolve a much larger one. On 22 March 1586/87, Marjory Guthrie, daughter of the deceased Henry Guthrie, burgess of Montrose , had a documented interest in Hiltoun of Guthrie and granted a procuratory for its resignation.
The territorial connection may help explain why later genealogists placed a son named Henry in the family of Alexander Guthrie and Agnes Falconer.
The chronology, however, makes the Montrose burgess an implausible son of that couple: Henry was already dead and had a daughter sufficiently mature to participate in a property transaction by 1586/87.
A more interesting possibility is that Henry and Marjory belonged somewhere within the wider Eassie–Hiltoun Guthrie network . That remains a hypothesis, not a conclusion.
Research target: reconstruct the chain of title to Hiltoun through the later sixteenth century, and independently trace Henry and Marjory through Montrose burgess, testamentary and property records.
Source: National Library of Scotland, Saltoun Papers, procuratory of resignation by Marjory Guthrie, 22 March 1586/87. See the NLS Guthrie Records .
The reconstructed property history describes a series of 1624 wadsets involving portions of Guthrie, followed by a wadset of the whole barony and church patronage in 1629.
It also records an absolute and irredeemable disposition on 12 December 1633 by David Guthrie and his son Alexander in favor of Rev. Patrick Guthrie.
That sequence fits the later evidence remarkably well and explains how Patrick became holder of Guthrie. But the underlying 1624 contracts and 1633 disposition have not yet been independently recovered and examined during the current project.
What would help: the original or registered copies of the 1624 wadsets, the 22 May 1629 whole-barony wadset, and especially the 12 December 1633 absolute disposition.
Source trail: Guthrie of Kincaldrum — property reconstruction . These instruments remain source-retrieval targets rather than records independently examined in this audit.
No spouse, children or death record have yet been securely identified for the Patrick Guthrie who was Bishop John’s son and fiar of that Ilk .
Numerous online pedigrees identify him with a Patrick Guthrie associated with Agnes Aykin / Aikin. The evidence reviewed for this profile does not establish that identification, and the two families should remain separate unless a documentary bridge is found.
Bishop John’s later succession charter provided for “the male heirs of [Patrick’s] body”, but that is prospective legal language. It does not prove that Patrick already had a wife, son or any existing children.
What would help: a marriage, baptism, burgess admission, sasine, testament or death record identifying the man concerned as son of the Bishop of Moray, fiar of Guthrie, or Patrick Guthrie of that Ilk .
Sources: NRS GD188/14/1, Patrick as fiar, 28 September 1643; RMS XI, Charter 565 , prospective remainder to Patrick and the male heirs of his body.
Later Fasti material gives Lucretia Guthrie as the wife of David Collace.
The contemporary marriage contract of 21 and 30 January 1628 instead explicitly identifies Collace’s bride as Margaret Guthrie, daughter of John, Bishop of Moray .
That record settles the identity of David Collace’s wife. It does not necessarily establish that a daughter named Lucretia never existed.
Lucretia may represent a corrupted name, a conflation with another woman, or a separate daughter whose record has not yet been recovered.
What would help: any baptism, marriage contract, testament, sasine or correspondence independently naming Lucretia Guthrie as a daughter of Bishop John, together with further reconstruction of Margaret Guthrie and David Collace’s descendants.
Sources: NRS GD188/2/9, marriage contract of Margaret Guthrie and David Collace, 21 and 30 January 1628; Fasti VII, p. 351 , later Lucretia identification.
Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini’s 2000 Lord Lyon matriculation as GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE provides direct official heraldic evidence.
The published Roll of the Chiefs and Heads of Territorial Houses gives his matriculation date as 10 July 2000 and the Public Register reference Volume 82 / 62.
The same roll distinguishes matriculations made in respect of a Minor Baron by a dagger symbol. The Guthrie entry carries no dagger. Alexander’s matriculation therefore should not automatically be converted into proof of ownership of Guthrie Castle, infeftment in the lands, or formal recognition of the historical Barony of Guthrie.
Following Alexander’s death in 2020, modern family and clan sources identify his younger brother Christian as the succeeding family representative and commonly as the 23rd Chief.
An equivalent post-2020 Lord Lyon matriculation for Christian has not yet been located during this audit. Clan succession and formal heraldic matriculation should therefore continue to be described separately.
What would help: any post-2020 Lord Lyon matriculation or other current official heraldic record concerning Christian, together with separate documentary evidence tracing any surviving baronial dignity.
Source: Court of the Lord Lyon — Roll of the Chiefs and Heads of Territorial Houses : GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE — Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini — 10 July 2000 — 82/62 .
Unresolved Does Not Mean Unresearchable
None of these open questions requires filling a blank with a convenient relationship. Each gives us a specific documentary problem to pursue.
Several questions have already narrowed substantially. Samuel and Hercules can now be placed in Alexander 5th’s family; the later John of Eassie is securely the son of David of Eassie; Bishop John’s immediate parents are established; and Peter is securely identified by the Great Seal as Rev. Patrick’s son and heir.
What remains are more precise questions: the missing instrument behind a relationship, the unidentified spouse behind a group of children, the legal document explaining a changed succession, or the original source behind a later genealogical statement.
Some future discoveries may confirm parts of the traditional pedigrees. Others may require further revision. Until then, the distinction between documented, strongly supported, reconstructed, traditional, contradicted and unresolved is part of the history rather than something to hide from the reader.
Most Wanted Documents
Records That Could Change or Strengthen This Reconstruction
Several of the open questions on this page have now narrowed to a specific surviving record, a known archival reference, or a tightly defined class of document. These are the records most likely to confirm, correct, or extend the present reconstruction of the Guthries of Guthrie.
Inclusion here does not mean that a record is lost. In several cases the item has already been identified but its complete wording has not yet been examined or preserved for this project. The purpose of this list is to keep the documentary trail visible so that an archive visitor, collaborating researcher, or future research session can resume from an exact target.
1. Robert Guthrie of “Minus” — Gdańsk File, 1662
Short reference: 300,60/2528
Catalogue title: “Guthrie, Robert – pasamonik, Minus – Szkocja”
Date: 1662
State Archives in Gdańsk, Poland
Why This Matters
Ernst Ludwig Fischer’s published abstract identifies Robert Guthrie as the son of the “noble” William Guthrie of “Minus,” near Forfar, and “Elis. Fenton.” The combination of William, a Fenton mother, and a place rendered “Minus” makes Robert a serious candidate for the family of William Guthrie of Memus, 7th of Guthrie.
What the Original Could Resolve
The file could confirm William’s exact territorial style, the mother’s precise name, Robert’s place of origin and legitimacy statement, and the role of Henry Guthrie, merchant at Danzig, who appears as a witness. If those details agree with the Scottish evidence, Robert could move from a strong research lead toward documented membership in the Memus household.
What We Need
Complete high-resolution images of the entire archival unit, including every page, verso, endorsement, cover, seal, certificate, or attached paper, followed by a careful transcription of the names, places, parentage language and witness statement.
2. General Register of Sasines — 30 April 1659
30 April 1659
Exact register volume and archival reference still to be identified.
Why This Matters
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VIII, p. 393 identifies Rev. James Guthrie of Stirling as son of William Guthrie of Memes and brother of Alexander Guthrie of Memes, and cites this specific sasine. That statement has become much more significant because contemporary evidence independently proves that William Guthrie of Memus, 7th of Guthrie, had an eldest son named Alexander and at least one additional son.
What the Original Could Resolve
The sasine may reveal whether the William and Alexander named in the relationship are the same William and Alexander documented in the Memus branch of the Guthrie of Guthrie family. If so, it could provide the missing contemporary bridge identifying the Covenanter minister James Guthrie as another son of William.
What We Need
The complete entry, together with its index or marginal references, all parties, relationships, lands and witnesses. Searches should allow for Memus variants including Memes, Memys, Memis, Memas and Mamus.
3. Alexander Guthrie, Fiar of Memis — Damaged Brief of Inquest, 1641
November [1641]
Papers of the Ogilvy family of Inverquharity
Why This Matters
The catalogue describes a brief of inquest concerning lands held by the deceased Alexander Guthrie, fiar of Memis. Alexander is already documented as the eldest son of William Guthrie of Memus. This damaged record may therefore preserve the crucial next step in William’s male line.
What the Original Could Resolve
It may identify Alexander’s heir, widow, son, daughter or other relative and could explain the succession of the Memus lands after his death. That information would also help test possible connections with the later Guthries of Easter Memus.
What We Need
Full-resolution images of every surviving portion, including damaged edges, verso and endorsements. Even fragmentary relationship wording may be genealogically decisive.
4. Peter Guthrie — Original Service of Heir, 24 May 1636
Peter Guthrie, heir of Mr Patrick Guthrie, minister at Logie-Buchan, his father.
Exact original retour/service reference still to be pinned down.
Published Angus finding aid independently identifies the heir as Peter.
Why This Matters
Older summaries created a Patrick-versus-Peter problem by reporting that a son named Patrick was served heir on this date. The surviving Angus services-of-heirs abstract instead identifies Peter Guthrie as heir of his father, Rev. Patrick Guthrie of Logie-Buchan, agreeing with the later Great Seal evidence.
What the Original Could Resolve
The original service should confirm the exact Christian name, relationship, territorial description and lands involved, and may contain additional wording not preserved in the abstract. Its purpose is now verification and fuller documentation rather than resolution of an unresolved name conflict.
What We Need
Locate the original service/retour behind the 24 May 1636 abstract and obtain the complete text or images.
5. Rev. Patrick Guthrie — 1624–1633 Guthrie Property Instruments
Reported absolute and irredeemable disposition, 12 December 1633
Exact archival references still to be relocated.
Guthrie family and related property papers; sasine/deed series
Why This Matters
The surviving reconstruction states that Rev. Patrick Guthrie of Logie-Buchan first acquired interests in Guthrie through wadsets and that David Guthrie and his son Alexander later made the estate absolutely and irredeemably over to Patrick on 12 December 1633. The reported 1624 contracts are also important because they describe Patrick as David’s brother-german.
What the Originals Could Resolve
They could document the exact legal steps by which Patrick moved from creditor or wadsetter to owner, confirm the brother-german wording, identify spouses or consenters, and clarify which lands and rights changed hands at each stage.
What We Need
The underlying 1624 contracts and the complete 12 December 1633 disposition, including endorsements, witnesses, reservations and any related sasines or registrations.
6. Sir David Guthrie & Jonete — Identity and Maternity Evidence
Exact decisive instrument not presently pinned down.
NRS GD188/1/1 — early Guthrie family writs
Great Seal, Panmure and Dundas-related evidence
Why This Matters
Jonete is securely documented as Sir David’s wife, and Sir Alexander is securely documented as Sir David’s son and heir. Later evidence strongly supports the traditional Dundas identification, but the exact contemporary record giving Jonete’s surname—and the primary wording explicitly linking her maternally to Alexander—remains a retrieval target.
What the Original Could Resolve
A direct maternity statement would close an important evidentiary gap in the first two generations of Guthrie of Guthrie. A contemporary surname would also determine whether the traditional identification of Jonete as a Dundas can be promoted from strongly supported reconstruction to direct documentary fact.
What We Need
A charter, sasine, marriage settlement, resignation, papal document, family instrument or later contemporary confirmation explicitly naming Jonete’s surname or describing Sir Alexander as her son.
7. Sir Alexander Guthrie — Identity of His Earlier Wife
No exact record yet identified.
Great Seal and ecclesiastical/papal material
Why This Matters
The chronology proves that Margaret Lyon could not have been the mother of all Sir Alexander’s children. David was already his apparent heir by 1495/96 while Margaret’s Rynd marriage was only ending. Alexander of Kincaldrum and Thomas Guthrie are later documented as brothers-german, establishing another maternal grouping whose mother remains unnamed.
What the Original Could Resolve
Naming the earlier wife could securely assign the pre-Margaret children, explain the unidentified Lady of Guthrie recorded in 1483, and clarify relationships among the Guthrie, Kincaldrum and later collateral lines.
What We Need
Any contemporary instrument from Sir Alexander’s earlier married life that names or identifies his spouse, especially records carrying liferent, terce, marriage, tocher, succession or consent language.
8. William Guthrie & Isobel Fenton — Brechin Deed, CC3/9/3 Entry 750
Brechin Commissary Court — Register of Deeds
Exact deed wording and date still require verification.
Why This Matters
The deed-index entry appears to associate William Guthrie, son of Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk, with Isobel Fenton. If the underlying deed confirms that reading, it could connect William’s parentage and marriage in a single contemporary record.
What the Original Could Resolve
The complete deed may provide fuller wording for William’s family identity, Isobel’s role, property or financial arrangements, witnesses, and perhaps other relatives omitted from the index.
What We Need
The full underlying deed—not merely the index description—together with any adjacent registration text needed to establish its date and context.
9. John Guthrie & Margaret Whyte — Original 1763 Marriage Contract
Exact archive reference still to be recovered.
Why This Matters
The contract is the direct legal evidence for Margaret Whyte’s status as an only child and for the lands of Muirhouse entering the Guthrie family’s property story through the marriage.
What the Original Could Resolve
The full instrument may supply the parties’ exact styles, trustees, relatives, financial provisions, property description, witnesses and any succession clauses omitted from the modern quotation.
What We Need
Recover the repository and catalogue reference, then preserve a full transcription or complete images of the contract and endorsements.
10. Post-2020 Lord Lyon Record for the Modern Successor
No corresponding register reference has yet been located.
Public Register of All Arms and Bearings in Scotland
Why This Matters
Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini’s 10 July 2000 matriculation is documented as GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE, Volume 82 / 62. Modern family and clan sources identify his younger brother Christian as the succeeding senior representative after Alexander’s death in 2020, but genealogical succession and formal heraldic matriculation should not be treated as interchangeable.
What the Record Could Resolve
If a later matriculation exists, it would establish Christian’s formal heraldic position and allow the profile to distinguish official Lyon recognition from modern clan usage with the same precision used for Alexander’s 2000 entry.
What We Need
A Public Register volume/page reference, extract, published roll entry, or official Court of the Lord Lyon confirmation dated after 23 March 2020.
Sources & Further Research
This profile is a document-led reconstruction. Traditional pedigrees remain valuable because they preserve older family knowledge and point toward records worth finding, but they are not allowed to override contemporary evidence when the two conflict.
The references below are intended as a research guide rather than an exhaustive bibliography. Individual sections of the profile identify the records most directly relevant to each generation, family relationship and succession problem.
The source list also distinguishes between records that have been examined directly, published editions or transcriptions of contemporary material, archive catalogue descriptions, and records that are known only through later citations and still need to be recovered.
How the Evidence Was Weighed
When different sources disagree, this profile generally gives priority in the following order:
This does not mean that every late source is wrong or that every archival abstract or published transcription is perfect. It means that conclusions should be traced as closely as possible to the record created at the time, and that a catalogue summary should not override fuller wording when the underlying record supplies a more precise relationship.
Important: terms such as eldest son, only son, son and heir, brother-german, apparent heir, fiar, liferent and fee are interpreted according to the wording, date and legal context of the record. They should not be converted automatically into the simplified relationships of a modern pedigree chart.
Fifteenth-Century Foundations — Kincaldrum, Sir David & Sir Alexander
The earliest secure territorial anchor presently identified for the Kincaldrum family. Master Alexander de Guthre de Kyncaldrum appears among the jurors in a formal inquisition concerning the Bishop of Brechin’s rights.
Registrum Episcopatus Brechinensis — Appendix Cartae Originales XLII, pp. 79–80Arbroath Abbey material places Master David at Kincaldrum and identifies James Guthrie as his brother in 1457, providing a rare direct sibling relationship in this early generation.
Arbroath Abbey Register II — 7 November 1457On 28 January 1459/60, Master David Guthrie of Kincaldrum was jointly appointed to hold the Bishop of Brechin’s Iter Camerarie. The record helps establish David’s administrative standing before his acquisition of Guthrie.
Register of the Bishopric of Brechin — Tabula 90; pp. 187–191Great Seal Charter 868 styles the grantee Master David de Guthre of Kincaldrum at the moment James III granted him the lands of Guthrie. The printed record places the charter under 1466 and dates it 25 March; the editor notes a discrepancy between the register year and regnal year. This profile therefore uses 25 March 1465/66.
RMS Vol. 2, Charter 868, p. 183The Guthrie family muniments also preserve the grant within the writs of the lands and barony.
NRS GD188/1/1Contemporary evidence documents Jonete as Sir David Guthrie’s wife. The records reviewed do not supply her surname. Later Guthrie tradition identifies her as a Dundas.
Wife documented Surname & explicit maternity still under reviewAn Exchequer account rendered on 7 July 1474 still names David Guthre de eodem, militis, establishing that Sir David was alive at that date.
Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, Vol. VIII, p. 225A sasine dated 23 August 1474 identifies Alexander Guthrie as son and heir of the deceased Sir David Guthrie of Guthrie, knight. Combined with the 7 July Exchequer record, it places Sir David’s death between those dates.
NRS GD188/1/1 — 23 August 1474Arbroath Abbey material records a Lady of Guthrie in 1483. She may have been Sir David’s widow Jonete or the unidentified earlier wife of Sir Alexander. She cannot have been Margaret Lyon.
Arbroath Abbey Register II, pp. 195–197, manuscript folio 223The Acts of the Lords of Council preserve the legal chronology surrounding Margaret Lyon’s earlier marriage to James Rynd, her widowhood and Sir Alexander’s later role as her procurator. These records are central to demonstrating that Margaret cannot have been the mother of all Sir Alexander’s children.
Sir Alexander settled Kincaldrum upon his son Alexander. Margaret Lyon is named as Sir Alexander’s spouse and George Guthrie is expressly identified as another son. The charter does not itself identify Margaret as the mother of Alexander or George.
RMS Vol. 2, Charter 3259Flodden to the Later Alexanders — Succession, Eassie & Family Reconstruction
The Exchequer Rolls record the 1514 succession after Flodden and explicitly state that the lands had fallen to the Crown after the deaths of Andrew’s grandfather Sir Alexander Guthrie and father David Guthrie. This fuller relationship corrects the compressed wording found in some later abstracts.
Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, Vol. XIV, p. 545Great Seal evidence confirmed on 24 May 1534 shows David Guthrie of Eassie already holding hereditary interests in Hiltoun and Easttown of Guthrie. This proves the Eassie family’s Hiltoun connection predated the later 1545–1546 transactions involving his son John.
RMS Vol. 3, Charter 1386On 29 January 1539, Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum conveyed Carret to Thomas Guthrie, his brother-german. Crown confirmation followed on 10 February 1539/40. The relationship establishes Thomas as another son of Sir Alexander and establishes that Thomas and Alexander shared both father and mother.
RMS Vol. 3, Charter 2085Andrew personally resigned the lands and barony for a new Crown grant on 9 March 1538/39. The charter is important for the extent of the estate before settlement upon the next generation.
RMS Vol. 3, Charter 1932The 13 March 1543/44 regrant identifies Alexander as Andrew’s son and apparent heir, places the fee in Alexander and reserves Andrew’s liferent together with the reasonable terce of Andrew’s unnamed wife.
RMS Vol. 3, Charter 2998Contemporary evidence dated 3 November 1544 identifies John Guthrie as heir of the deceased David Guthrie of Eassie. This is central to rejecting the older placement of the later John as a son of Sir Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon.
NRS GD16/3/42A precept of clare constat and later grant/sasine connect John with Hiltoun and Easttown of Guthrie. In the 1546 grant, Alexander Guthrie of the principal line calls John his “beloved kinsman.”
NLS Ch.14167–14169Testamentary evidence names Isobel Wood, younger sons William, Gabriel and James, daughters Margaret and Elizabeth, brother Master John Guthrie, and other family members.
CC8/8/19A royal precept dated 3 February 1576 identifies Gabriel and Andrew as legitimate sons of Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk and concerns their ecclesiastical provisions at Guthrie.
The Crown grant of 30 November 1583 records the lifetime transfer of the core barony to the younger Alexander. Hiltoun and the superiority of Langlands were excluded from this settlement.
RMS Vol. 5, Charter 637The Edinburgh apprenticeship register records Samuel Guthrie on 16 March 1601 and Hercules Guthrie on 26 March 1606, each explicitly described as a son of Alexander Guthrie of that Ilk.
Their adult chronology places them with the family of Alexander, 5th of Guthrie, rather than with the younger Alexander and Jean Leighton whose settlement dates only from 1597.
Edinburgh Register of Apprentices, 1583–1666The underlying charter dated 27 August 1597 was granted by Alexander Guthrie senior of that Ilk to his son and apparent heir Alexander junior and Jean Leighton. Crown confirmation followed on 10 January 1597/98.
RMS Vol. 6, Charter 639The Privy Council distinguishes Alexander Guthrie, elder of that Ilk from Alexander Guthrie, younger of that Ilk. This proves that the elder Alexander survived the 1597 lifetime settlement.
Register of the Privy Council of Scotland — 20 December 1600Memus, Kincaldrum & the Seventeenth-Century Property Succession
William succeeded his brother Alexander after the latter’s death. His 20 June 1616 retour is important for the lateral succession from Alexander, 6th of Guthrie, to William of Memus.
Retour / Service of Heir — 20 June 1616The principal lands and Barony of Guthrie were sold irredeemably on 10 September 1629 by William Guthrie of that Ilk, with the consent of Isabella Fenton, to David Guthrie of Kincaldrum. Crown confirmation followed on 24 July 1630.
RMS Vol. 8, Charter 1616An instrument dated 24 April 1621 placed David Guthrie of Kincaldrum in possession of specified lands within the Barony of Guthrie before the later irredeemable purchase.
NRS GD137 — Instrument of Sasine, 24 April 1621On 29 November 1633, Alexander Guthrie of Kincaldrum sold the barony to Sir John Blair of Balgillo. The transaction reserved a liferent in part of Carret for Alexander’s father David. Crown confirmation followed on 27 June 1635.
RMS Vol. 9, Charter 323The reconstructed property history reports 1624 wadsets, a whole-barony wadset in 1629 and an absolute disposition dated 12 December 1633 in favor of Rev. Patrick Guthrie.
The sequence fits the later evidence, but the underlying 1624 contracts and 1633 disposition have not yet been independently relocated and examined.
Underlying records still soughtFasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ reports that a son named Patrick was served heir to Rev. Patrick Guthrie on this date.
Great Seal evidence later in 1636 instead explicitly identifies Peter Guthrie as Rev. Patrick’s son and heir. Until the original service is found, the discrepancy should remain a source problem rather than being solved by inventing a second succession.
Original service / retour still soughtGreat Seal evidence identifies Peter Guthrie, then of that Ilk, as the son and heir of the deceased Rev. Patrick Guthrie of Logie-Buchan. Peter resigned Guthrie on 13 September 1636, followed by the Crown grant on 28 November 1636 to John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray, and Nichola Wood.
RMS Vol. 9, Charter 616Bishop John Guthrie, His Family & the Gagie Reunion
Fasti and related ministerial evidence identify Patrick Guthrie, goldsmith of St Andrews, and Margaret Raitt as Bishop John’s parents. His brother was Rev. James Guthrie of Kinnell and Arbirlot.
An earlier Fasti entry printed the mother’s surname as Hart; the Volume VIII corrigendum corrects it to Rait.
Fasti Vol. 7, p. 351; Vol. 8, p. 710 corrigendumThe corrected heraldic pedigree carries Bishop John’s wider ancestry through:
William Guthrie of Hiltoun + Margaret Ogilvie
↓
David Guthrie of Hiltoun + Christian Wemyss
↓
Charles Guthrie of St Andrews + Agnes Brown
↓
Patrick Guthrie, goldsmith + Margaret Raitt
↓
John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray
This corrected pedigree resolves the severe generational compression of the earlier version, but its earliest links remain retrospective pedigree evidence until independently confirmed in contemporary records.
Corrected Lyon pedigree Earliest links still require contemporary proofIncludes the 1628 marriage contract for Margaret Guthrie and David Collace, the 1631 contract for Nicolas Guthrie and Joseph Brodie, and related family material.
NRS GD188/2/9A 1643 letter is catalogued as being from John Guthrie, Bishop of Moray, to his son-in-law George Hay of Rannes. Combined with Hay family evidence identifying George’s wife as Agnes Guthrie, this strongly supports Agnes as another daughter of the bishop.
NLS MS.2975, fols. 1–3A record dated 28 September 1643 explicitly styles Bishop John’s son Patrick Guthrie, fiar of that ilk while he exercises the patronage of the kirk of Guthrie.
NRS GD188/14/1Bishop John’s third son Andrew Guthrie was executed at St Andrews on 20 January 1646 following the Royalist campaign.
Fasti Vol. 7, p. 351; Records of the Parliaments of ScotlandThe later Crown confirmation preserves the destination of Guthrie through Francis and Bathiah, Francis’s male heirs, Bishop John’s son Patrick and the male heirs of his body, Rev. James Guthrie and further substitutes.
This is the key source showing that Francis and Bathiah were placed ahead of Patrick without removing Patrick entirely from the destination.
RMS Vol. 11, Charter 565 — 4 March 1664Francis was alive when the Crown confirmed the settlement on 4 March 1664. By 4 April 1665, his son John was served heir to him in Wester Gagie. Francis therefore died between those dates.
National Records of Scotland — Later Family & Estate Records
Marriage contract dated 24 March 1680. The contemporary contract identifies Cicill Carnegy, daughter of the deceased Sir John Carnegie of Balnamoon, as John Guthrie’s bride, correcting later pedigrees that substitute Elizabeth Carnegie.
GD188/2/2Marriage contract dated 13 May 1704 describing James as the only son of John Guthrie of that Ilk.
GD188/1/6Inventory recorded at Brechin after Margaret’s death in 1815.
CC3/5/3Inland Revenue succession account dated 23 August 1929 following the death of John Douglas Maude Guthrie.
GD188/5/5Court of Session process concerning entailed money. The wording does not by itself establish disentailment of the entire landed estate.
CS272/5/171Parish Registers, Statutory Records & Census Returns
From the late seventeenth century onward, Old Parish Registers and later statutory records make it possible to test older pedigrees child by child, while census returns restore collateral siblings and households often omitted from estate-centered genealogies.
Parish baptisms presently identified include Jean in 1691, Bathia in 1693 and Elizabeth in 1697.
Parish records document John, James, Agnes, George and Cecil / Cicill. George was baptized on 13 July 1711.
Fasti and parish evidence document the 1732 marriage and later family. The 1737 Gagie stone bearing J.G. : J.H. provides additional material evidence associated with the couple.
Parish and later civil records document the 23–24 June 1798 proclamation and marriage, their children and the later collateral family households at Guthrie Castle and Balmuir House.
These records give important household snapshots at Guthrie Castle and Balmuir House and restore collateral siblings who are easily lost from estate-centered pedigrees.
Statutory records establish that their infant son John was born on 23 January 1855 and died the following day, followed by the birth of John Douglas Maude Guthrie on 11 March 1856.
Statutory records document his birth on 5 March 1858 at 6 Royal Circus, Edinburgh, and his death there seventeen days later.
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ & Church Records
Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ is particularly valuable for the clerical Guthries who intersect with the landed families, including Bishop John Guthrie, his brother Rev. James Guthrie, Rev. Patrick Guthrie of Logie-Buchan, and Rev. James Guthrie of Stirling.
Individual Guthrie references are checked against the full entry and surrounding text, rather than relying solely upon volume indexes. Fasti remains a later compiled source, so its genealogical claims are compared wherever possible with contemporary charters, sasines, parish records and family papers.
Fasti Volume VII gives the Bishop’s mother as Margaret Hart, while the Volume VIII corrigendum corrects the surname to Rait. Other evidence supports the corrected Margaret Raitt identification.
Fasti Vol. 7, p. 351; Vol. 8, p. 710Fasti reports a son Patrick served heir on 24 May 1636. Great Seal evidence later that year explicitly names Peter Guthrie as Rev. Patrick’s son and heir. The original May service remains the appropriate record to retrieve before trying to reconcile the names.
Fasti identifies Jean Guthrie, mother of Patrick Lindsay born in 1566, as a daughter of Alexander Guthrie, fiar of that Ilk. The wording does not by itself distinguish which Alexander of the repeating main-line sequence was intended.
Fasti Vol. 7, p. 322Fasti Volume VIII identifies the Covenanter minister James Guthrie of Stirling as a son of William Guthrie of Memes and brother of Alexander Guthrie of Memes.
Unusually, Fasti cites a specific underlying source: General Register of Sasines, Second Series, 30 April 1659 . That sasine has not yet been independently located and examined.
The claim is particularly significant because William Guthrie of Memus, 7th of Guthrie is independently known to have had an eldest son Alexander and at least one additional son. The identification is therefore plausible but not yet proven.
Fasti Vol. 8, p. 393 General Register of Sasines, 2nd Series, 30 April 1659 — MOST WANTEDA later record involving John Guthrie of Easter Memus and his brother James Guthrie in Lodgeingtoun demonstrates why the territorial designation Memus / Memes cannot by itself be used to merge all similarly styled Guthries.
NRS GD16/19/2 — 27 November 1680Published Historical, Genealogical & Antiquarian Works
These works are valuable for historical context, older family traditions and clues to lost or difficult records, but their genealogical statements are not treated as equivalent to contemporary evidence.
Important for early Maule and Guthrie traditions and for preserving older family material. Statements copied from charters are distinguished from later editorial or genealogical commentary.
An important relatively early secondary account, especially for traditional marriages and pedigree claims. Crawfurd’s statement that Sir David’s reported Maule marriage produced no issue conflicts with other early family material and is therefore treated as evidence of a tradition rather than proof.
Useful as a clue source and for understanding the pedigree inherited by later researchers, but known errors and misattributions require its claims to be independently checked.
Useful for identifying received family tradition and tracing what later genealogists believed, but not used to override contemporary evidence where chronology or primary records contradict the printed pedigree.
This University of Glasgow doctoral thesis quotes the surviving 1763 marriage contract of John Guthrie and Margaret Whyte, including the provision that brought Muirhouse into the marriage.
It is used here as a scholarly route to the wording of the contract rather than as a substitute for the original instrument, whose archive reference remains to be pinned down.
Valuable for later local history, Gagie, memorial material, property traditions and the 1737 J.G. : J.H. stone. Warden’s statements are cross-checked against surviving parish, charter and retour evidence where possible.
Spynie Palace & the Bishop of Moray
Bishop John’s years in Moray require a different body of evidence from the Angus estate history.
Archaeological and architectural study of Spynie Palace is valuable for reconstructing the physical setting in which Bishop John and his household lived.
A surviving inventory predates Bishop John’s tenure and therefore should not be presented as an inventory of his personal possessions. It can, however, help reconstruct the rooms, furnishings and physical character of the episcopal residence.
GD188/2/9Contemporary evidence describing Nichola Wood’s arrangements for the family household goods to be transported from Spynie to Guthrie is important for distinguishing the episcopal residence at Spynie from Bishop John’s private landed estate at Guthrie.
Guthrie Castle, Architecture & Modern Estate
The listed-building and designed-landscape records are used for the architectural sequence of the site: the old tower, the c.1760 mansion, the 1818 connection between them, and the 1848 remodeling and extension by David Bryce.
HES also records that the Guthrie family remained at the castle until its 1981 sale, when the property was sold with planning permission for proposed timeshare development.
HES is treated here as an architectural and designation source, not as an authority for the medieval or early-modern Guthrie pedigree. Its historical narrative repeats some older genealogical traditions that require separate testing.
The castle’s current official website is used only for present-day information, including its identification as a private residence, the modern approximately 156-acre estate, and current access arrangements.
Those modern details are not used to define the historical extent of the lands or Barony of Guthrie.
Twentieth-Century Military, Family & Succession Records
Military and memorial records document John Neil as the eldest son and heir, his service with the Irish Guards, and his death on 18 May 1915 during the fighting at Festubert. He died before succeeding his father.
Gazette and military records document Ivan’s service in the Indian Army and 17th Cavalry, together with his later military career and award of the Military Cross.
The London Gazette records Moyra’s deed poll dated 3 June 1965, by which she renounced the surname Philips and resumed Guthrie. The deed was enrolled on 15 June 1965.
Monumental inscriptions provide important twentieth-century family evidence, including Moyra’s style “Moyra Irene Guthrie of Guthrie”, her death on 22 June 1984, and the names of her children.
Heraldry, Territorial Style, Chiefship & Modern Recognition
Heraldic evidence becomes especially important after ownership of Guthrie Castle separates from genealogical representation of the family.
Alexander Ivan Bedini-Jacobini matriculated arms on 10 July 2000 under the style GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE. The published Roll of the Chiefs and Heads of Territorial Houses records the matriculation as Volume 82 / 62.
The roll’s own notation is significant: a dagger (†) marks arms matriculated with a chapeau in respect of the armiger being a Minor Baron. The GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE entry carries no dagger.
The 2000 record therefore documents Alexander’s matriculated arms and territorial style but should not be expanded into an unrecorded grant or confirmation of the historic Barony of Guthrie.
10 July 2000 — Public Register Vol. 82 / 62Modern Clan Guthrie material identifies Alexander as the 22nd Chief of Clan Guthrie. That numbered clan terminology is distinct from the wording of the official Lyon matriculation, which records GUTHRIE OF GUTHRIE.
Modern family and clan sources identify Alexander’s younger brother Christian as the succeeding senior family representative and commonly as the 23rd Chief.
A corresponding post-2020 Lord Lyon matriculation equivalent to Alexander’s 2000 record has not yet been located during this audit. Genealogical or clan succession should therefore not be treated automatically as proof of later formal matriculation.
Post-2020 Lord Lyon record still soughtHeraldic recognition, genealogical succession, clan usage, ownership of the estate and any surviving baronial dignity are related historical subjects but should not be treated as interchangeable.
Most Wanted Records
Several questions have now narrowed to a particular missing document. These records have the greatest potential to change or strengthen the present reconstruction.
-
General Register of Sasines, Second Series,
30 April 1659
Cited by Fasti Ecclesiæ Scoticanæ, Volume VIII, p. 393, for the statement that Rev. James Guthrie of Stirling was son of William Guthrie of Memes and brother of Alexander Guthrie of Memes. Recovering this record is now a major priority. -
24 May 1636 Service of Heir to Rev. Patrick Guthrie
Needed to resolve Fasti’s “Patrick” against the later Great Seal charter explicitly identifying Peter Guthrie as Patrick’s son and heir. -
Rev. Patrick Guthrie’s 1624–1633 Property Instruments
Especially the reported 1624 wadsets and 12 December 1633 absolute disposition of Guthrie by David and Alexander in Patrick’s favor. -
Sir David Guthrie — Jonete’s Identity and Maternity Evidence
A contemporary record naming Jonete’s surname and the exact primary instrument explicitly establishing whether she was Sir Alexander’s mother. -
Sir Alexander Guthrie’s Earlier Wife
A marriage contract, liferent clause, papal record, sasine or other contemporary document identifying the mother of the earlier children, including David and the brother-german pair Alexander and Thomas. -
Original 1763 John Guthrie–Margaret Whyte Marriage Contract
The contract survives and has been quoted in modern scholarship, but its precise archive reference should be recovered so the Muirhouse settlement can be cited directly. -
Post-2020 Lord Lyon Record for the Modern Successor
If a later matriculation or official heraldic entry exists for Christian Guthrie, it would allow the profile to distinguish his formal heraldic position from modern clan usage with the same precision available for Alexander’s 2000 record.
A Profile Designed to Change When the Evidence Changes
This reconstruction should not be treated as a frozen pedigree. One of its purposes is to show clearly which relationships are documented, which are strongly supported or reconstructed, and which still depend upon tradition or unresolved evidence.
New charters, testaments, marriage contracts, sasines, parish entries or family papers may strengthen parts of the traditional account, alter a parentage, explain an estate transfer, or resolve one of the open questions identified above.
Several conclusions on this page have already changed for precisely that reason. The discovery of stronger evidence has restored omitted children, separated men who had been conflated, corrected chronologies, distinguished sales from inheritance, and clarified the difference between family descent, ownership of the estate and later heraldic recognition.
When new evidence appears, the appropriate response is not to protect an older pedigree merely because it is familiar. It is to update the reconstruction while preserving a record of what earlier sources claimed, what the newer evidence says, and why the conclusion changed.